Author Topic: Dangerous? What is your opinion?  (Read 4741 times)

Offline Wiz

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Dangerous? What is your opinion?
« on: December 15, 2017, 03:18:36 PM »
I'd like your opinion regarding the fire safety facilities in a hotel, which is highly-rated on Tripadvisor, located in the capital city of an EU country.
The hotel looks to have been built no longer than 20 years ago. It has 9 floors with only 3 bedrooms per floor. There is a single staircase (no other escape staircase) and a lift serving all floors, the doors of which open directly on to the corridor of each floor.
There are no doors on the escape route on any floor - smoke could travel totally unimpeded from the ground floor reception area all the way up to the ninth floor. Whilst there is AFD in the reception area and in the bedrooms there is no AFD whatsoever on the escape route. I noticed that there were adequate Manual call points and alarm sounders. I noticed that there is a fire extinguisher on each floor.
If I hadn't paid for my 4 night stay in advance I would have left as soon as I noticed the lack of fire detection and fire doors. As it was, I didn't sleep very well!
I have subsequently emailed the hotel with my concerns but received no response. The fire safety facilities seem inadequate to me and I am concerned for the safety of other hotel guests. If you think my concerns are valid what do you suggest I could do about it?

Offline AnthonyB

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Re: Dangerous? What is your opinion?
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2017, 08:34:38 PM »
I assume (hope!) it's not in the UK!

We knocked things like this on the head back in 1972 (at least with protection of escapes, AFD took a little longer) when we brought hotels under the FP Act.

Despite some claims over our fire safety legislation being a failure post Grenfell it seems to be far superior to many countries.

If there are any issues with our set up it's the way it's followed by some not the base set up.

I wouldn't be comfortable unless there was evidence of engineered alternatives such as sprinklers & smoke control.

You are now going to say this place is in London, which will then further reinforce my view that the Building Regulation process doesn't really work these days....

I suppose you could complain to the relevant enforcing authority whoever that is...
Anthony Buck
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Offline Wiz

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Re: Dangerous? What is your opinion?
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2017, 09:41:58 PM »
No, it isn't in London, I am very pleased to say.

I saw no evidence of a sprinkler system.

Offline colin todd

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Re: Dangerous? What is your opinion?
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2017, 11:09:42 PM »
My advice to you is to forget it and book a holiday in Scotland next year, where you can be assured that the hotels will have been audited by members of the finest FRS in the world if not the universe.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline Owain

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Re: Dangerous? What is your opinion?
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2017, 02:54:01 PM »
My advice to you is to forget it and book a holiday in Scotland next year, where you can be assured that the hotels will have been audited by members of the finest FRS in the world if not the universe.

Scottish FRS Hotel Audit

Pass => 17 marks

Smoke detectors (1 mark if present)
Door closers (1 mark if present)
Bossy laminated notices (1 mark if present)
Tartan carpets (1 mark if present)
Porridge (0-10 marks depending on quality)
Black Pudding (0-10 marks depending on quality)
Treacle Scones (0-10 marks depending on quality)
Picture of Nicola Sturgeon in bedrooms (20 marks if present)


Offline Wiz

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Re: Dangerous? What is your opinion?
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2017, 05:09:19 PM »

Scotland? I can't afford luxury holidays now that I've retired!  ;D

Although I'll never return to the hotel in question, I dread reading in the future that guests died in a fire.

So much for the same standards being enforced throughout the EU.  >:(

Offline Owain

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Re: Dangerous? What is your opinion?
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2017, 06:11:01 PM »
Meanwhile, in Scotland, 2 fatalities (so far) after Cameron House Hotel fire

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-42392459

Quote
A guest at the hotel told BBC Radio Scotland how she initially thought the fire alarm was a drill.

Ainsley Huxham said: "As soon as we left our room - I just thought it was a fire alarm, just like a practise go.

"But when we left - five stairs down from our room - we saw a whole room full of smoke and flames.

"So we had to run back down the hall, chapped on everyone's doors and shouted 'fire!'."


« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 10:17:32 PM by Wiz »

Offline AnthonyB

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Re: Dangerous? What is your opinion?
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2017, 07:20:09 PM »
I'd be interested in seeing the results of the investigation, in theory you shouldn't be at risk from death (other than possibly in a bedroom of fire origin) in a place like this if suitably managed with the right systems in place.

The minimal info on the link points to a few questions in itself, will be useful to see how things unfold...

Doesn't seem to be listed so no Heritage Fire Safety issues, apparently was converted to a hotel in 1986.
Anthony Buck
Fire Safety Technical Lead at a BAFE SP205 accredited consultancy

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Offline Wiz

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Re: Dangerous? What is your opinion?
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2017, 10:26:59 PM »
Meanwhile, in Scotland, 2 fatalities (so far) after Cameron House Hotel fire

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-42392459

Quote
A guest at the hotel told BBC Radio Scotland how she initially thought the fire alarm was a drill.

Ainsley Huxham said: "As soon as we left our room - I just thought it was a fire alarm, just like a practise go.

"But when we left - five stairs down from our room - we saw a whole room full of smoke and flames.

"So we had to run back down the hall, chapped on everyone's doors and shouted 'fire!'."




Sounds like when they encountered the room with 'smoke and flames' they were then able to escape by using a different exit route. The hotel mentioned in my original post had only one escape route despite being a 9 storey building with not a single fire door on that route. I often find sub-standard fire doors and poorly located automatic fire detection in some hotels in which I stay, but I considered the hotel in my original post to be, to my fairly well-trained eye, a potential death-trap.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 10:29:20 PM by Wiz »