Positive discrimination in the fire service

[AllyMacG]

Thought this might be a good talking pont thought it might make your blood boil, mines certainly did.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/25/nfire125.xml

[Little phil]

Yes is does, all FRS preaches Equality, Fairness and not to discreminate which is truly justified but this in recruitment is a complete nonsense and unfair to white males. This kind of focus really does show where we are really at in our modern fire and rescue sevice. All the possitive work done on Equality and Fairness is totaly undone in one campain. I suspect this kind of recruitment is supported by the department of local communities and govenment.

[kurnal]

If the event was organised and set up as described in the newspaper - then I would join you in absolute condemnation. But was it really like that?? I dont know.

Certainly the organisers have been very naive and done the equal opportunities cause serious damage and a  huge disservice in running an event in this way. But I bet the newspaper has not let the truth stand in the way of a good story and dont care how much damage they cause if it will sell a few papers.

What can the employers do? Theres absolutely no doubt that the british fire service does not reflect the make up of society as a whole. It would seem to me to be a reasonable expectation that around half of all firefighters should be female and that the ethnic mix of the service should reflect its local community.

If that were the case it would be absolutely clear and transparent that the service does treat all applications fairlyand all persons equally. Currently the make up is over 90% white male. Yes there are historic reasons for this but unless brigades try do something to deal with it under represented  groups will assume that they are probably not welcome to apply.

[Midland Retty]

This concept is nothing new - quite a few brigades do this type of thing aleady.

The idea is that the Brigade holds open days specifically trageted to attract people from under represented groups. They are invited to apply, but just like everyone else have to pass the same entry criteria.

However ive not known an occassion where the brigade concerned has stated "no white males allowed". Ive know brigades go to attend Islamic or Sikh religious festivals for example with a promotional stand as it were, but general open days are always open to anyone.

[RON G]

Years ago when I was in the local fire service I had a stint in the Ethnic department, now called I believe the Equal opportunitis Section, my role included going to school employment days in predominatley ethnic minority areas, however the amount of interest we recieved was minimal. pupils would come up and talk to us but were not that bothered about joining the Fire Service, the typical answer was that they would rather have a better paid job with less risk or that their parents would not allow them to join the Fire service seeing it as low profile job.

I think the old saying, you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink  springs to mind

[Dinnertime Dave]

This concept is nothing new - quite a few brigades do this type of thing aleady.

The idea is that the Brigade holds open days specifically trageted to attract people from under represented groups. They are invited to apply, but just like everyone else have to pass the same entry criteria.

However ive not known an occassion where the brigade concerned has stated "no white males allowed". Ive know brigades go to attend Islamic or Sikh religious festivals for example with a promotional stand as it were, but general open days are always open to anyone.

Twenty years ago I applied to join a large Metropolitan brigade. Even then they offered assistance with the application process to under represented ethnic groups. As a white male I wasn’t offered it.

I read this in the Telegraph yesterday drawn by the over sensational headline - What the article says is that Avon Fire Service have had a number of targeted recruitment drives directly aimed at under represented groups. Whether they are black, asian gay or woman. What does it matter?  

I have been involved with recruitment campaigns to highlight the fire service as a career to woman, my brief was to encourage woman to consider it as a career. Nothing more, nothing less.

Incidentally, my brigade encourages anyone and everyone at the application stage to visit a fire station to find out more about the job.

[Midland Retty]

Yes encourage is the word, its designed to dispell some of the myths misconceptions and concerns the under represented group might have about joining the brigade.

Like I say thats happened for years, but its always been done in a way where the Fire Service concerned branches out to the events organised by the Under represented groups in question - yes general opebn days were supposed to be for all as well, but to exclude white males specifically - ive not heard of that before!.

[firedodger]

We held 'have a go days' in our Brigade some seven years ago.  I was working as a press officer at the time and the issue of males being 'banned' came up.  I think very sensibly our head of media did not ban anyone from attending, although the days were very much promoted as being aimed at women and people from ethnic minorities.  Sexual orientation was not an issue that was directly adressed in the scheme at the time.  

I think that was the most sensible approach to the issue.  We haven't run them for some years now as far as I know.  Avon are clearly very sensitive on this issue following the 'searchlight' incident.  It seems to me that a very silly act by one crew which should have been dealt with via low key disciplinary action has been turned into a major civil rights event.  Far from being a terrible homophobic atrocity the whole thing seems to point up significant change in how people view their own sexuality.  Who would of thought twenty years ago that a group of people involved in a public act of gross indecency (according to the law) would see fit to complain indignantly that they had been disturbed during said act.

It seems to me far more significant that they felt empowered enough to complain, rather than that a group of blokes did something a bit stupid; because blokes always will and always will need to be b***cked for it.

[AllyMacG]

http://www.avonfire.gov.uk/Avon/News/Have-a-go+days.htm

[Rich]

Pupils would come up and talk to us but were not that bothered about joining the Fire Service, the typical answer was that they would rather have a better paid job with less risk or that their parents would not allow them to join the Fire service seeing it as low profile job.

I think the old saying, you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink  springs to mind

Here here,  for one instance many a time when we've been out on shouts in some of our 'highly populated ethnic areas' we chat to the children and teenagers and ask them do you fancy joining the fire service and the replies we get are....... no it doesn't pay enough or it's to dangerous or even no because you have to work nights!

There is a reason these people don't join and that is because they don't want to.  You can't force them........well they haven't found a way yet but watch this space!!

[Nearlybaldandgrey]

The correct term for these days is Positive action days. They are not discriminatory at all and they are purely for information to assist individuals make a more reasoned decision over whether to join or not. It rasies awareness and encourages under represented groups to consider a career in the Fire and Rescue Service.

Having read the article, it appears that the press (god love 'em) may have mis-interpreted what the whole event was about, which has the knock on of distorting public perception.

If the fire authority was handing out appications packs at this event, then it would be positive discrimination.

[Steven N]

As one who was there & who gets real jarred off by lots of pc b&*%%ks it aint like it says in the paper, surprise surprise. On a wider note it does frighten me when a story is written in the press that you know through personal expierience is wrong what about all the other things in our honest & truthful press!I think of our strike for one

[Midland Retty]

As one who was there & who gets real jarred off by lots of pc b&*%%ks it aint like it says in the paper, surprise surprise. On a wider note it does frighten me when a story is written in the press that you know through personal expierience is wrong what about all the other things in our honest & truthful press!I think of our strike for one

You have hit the nail on the head Stevo.

Controversy sells newspapers....need we say more.

The problem is that it undermines the work of upper management and the public's perception of the fire service but clearly theres nothing we can do about misreporting - the newspapers are too powerful to be tackled!

[RON G]

With regards to this subject, last month at Aston University recreation centre between Birmingham and Walsall, West midlands, there was an Asian football tournament and in total 12,000 played or attended over the two days, a wonderful opportunity for a recruitment drive for the Fire Service and Police, two small stands, I was there both days (drinking) I didnt see any representation from either organisations. If they were there I apologise, if they were not, the question must be why not?

[AllyMacG]

With regards to this subject, last month at Aston University recreation centre between Birmingham and Walsall, West midlands, there was an Asian football tournament and in total 12,000 played or attended over the two days, a wonderful opportunity for a recruitment drive for the Fire Service and Police, two small stands, I was there both days (drinking) I didnt see any representation from either organisations. If they were there I apologise, if they were not, the question must be why not?

That is a good point.  As the angry young man that raised this subject, I feel that I should contribute.  I do feel that when it comes to recruitment, as a white British male aged 18-30 I am the lowest in the pecking order, however as I have been trying for a good few years to get in I would say that any time I have been going through the recruitment process e.g. going for tests etc I have not felt discriminated against.  My main point was, by all means encourage BME's and females  to apply as much as anyone else, but make that as equal as someone that is white, black, Asian, female, heterosexual, homosexual, etc, etc.  This opinion may come down to the fact that I am young and perhaps naive and fail to see where race, sex and sexual orientation comes into it!