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FIRE SAFETY => Portable Firefighting Equipment => Topic started by: AnthonyB on July 06, 2011, 05:25:16 PM
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"We don't need no stinking extinguisher engineer!"
http://www.safelincs.co.uk/britannia/
Britannia Fire, one of the 3 remaining UK extinguisher manufacturers with a long history in the industry have come up with a single use disposable extinguisher with a 10 year life and needing NO servicing, just simple user checks each year.
Is it another 600g/1kg Powder for the car, van, boat?
No - it's a 6 litre High Performance AFFF 27A 183B rating AND direct electrical use to 1000V; and
a 6 kilo High Performance ABC Powder 43A 183B and C rating with the usual electrical use approval.
Unless you really need CO2 or have a Class F risk you could never see a service engineer again! And just like Minimax in the early 20th Century replacements if used on a fire are free!
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Interesting that the 'Free Replacement Extinguisher' comes apparently only if you have also called the fire service and got an incident number off them.
And how do they get exemption from the requirements of BS/EN for regular checks 'by a competent person' and the discharge tests?
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What happens when something is dropped onto it, bends the pin and it takes you five minutes to get it out with a pair of pliers?
What happens when it gets taken off the wall and hidden in a corner until the annual engineer visit points out that it's missing?
What happens when it gets hit by a forklift and puts a stonking great dent in it?
What happens when someone uses it directly onto live electrics and then steps into the pool of foam?
What happens to the brief instruction to the new staff member about how to use it?
What happens when the insurance company says "your extinguishers have not been serviced for 10 years....we're not paying out"?
What happens when a kid in a school shoves chewing gum up the hose?
What happens when it gets maliciously discharged....do you have to buy a new one?
What happens when someone decides to pinch the hose?
What happens when you put one on a lorry and don't service it for 10 years....compacted solid.
Etc etc....and yes we do service extinguishers for a living and so did Britannia (as UK Fire) until a couple of years ago.....did they develop this idea and then think they should sell out?
John
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Interesting that the 'Free Replacement Extinguisher' comes apparently only if you have also called the fire service and got an incident number off them.
And how do they get exemption from the requirements of BS/EN for regular checks 'by a competent person' and the discharge tests?
Firstly as we know BS are not law. But they do still require an annual check, the design of the extinguisher being such that they deem 'the man on the Clapham omnibus' competent by simply following the instructions on the body.
It is exempt from Extended Services as it is a disposable extinguisher, the 10 years being it's life - once the expiry date had passed it should be discarded, the whole think is a scaling up of the Firemaster disposable product that's been around since the 60's .
Britannia's reusable extinguishers are too expensive to enter the general market (still made here instead of China you see) this is their attempt to renter that market by offering no running costs and double the life of a typical extinguisher (as almost everyone bins them at 5 years now)
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What happens when something is dropped onto it, bends the pin and it takes you five minutes to get it out with a pair of pliers? The user identifies this on their routine checks and calls the manufacturer
What happens when it gets taken off the wall and hidden in a corner until the annual engineer visit points out that it's missing? There wouldn't be an engineer any more, the user is responsible for checking it's location
What happens when it gets hit by a forklift and puts a stonking great dent in it? User identifies this in the user checks, any damage requires replacement with new
What happens when someone uses it directly onto live electrics and then steps into the pool of foam? Most live conductors are not at floor level, operator should be at least 1m back
What happens to the brief instruction to the new staff member about how to use it?As always the users responsibility
What happens when the insurance company says "your extinguishers have not been serviced for 10 years....we're not paying out"?They don't need servicing, see you in court
What happens when a kid in a school shoves chewing gum up the hose? Can't do that on a spray nozzle, user checks should highlight this
What happens when it gets maliciously discharged....do you have to buy a new one?Yes, it is a disposable product
What happens when someone decides to pinch the hose? User checks find this, call manufacturer
What happens when you put one on a lorry and don't service it for 10 years....compacted solid.It's not a cartridge extinguisher, it is constantly fluidised under the stored pressure
Etc etc....and yes we do service extinguishers for a living and so did Britannia (as UK Fire) until a couple of years ago.....did they develop this idea and then think they should sell out?
John
Your points are all valid, I'm just trying to think like Britannia would in response. Like the small aerosols they emulate, the chances of anyone taking any notice of the expiry date are remote....
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If you installed these extinguisher I assume you would not meet the recommendations of BS 5306-3-2009 and would this means you would be in contravention of The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005?
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If you installed these extinguisher I assume you would not meet the recommendations of BS 5306-3-2009 and would this means you would be in contravention of The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005?
Adopting an alternative solution to that recommended by a British Standard does not automatically mean that the requirements of the RR(FS)O have not been complied with.
Stu
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I agree Stu all I can find in the FSO is if necessary the RP should have a competent person to assist him/her for measures for fire-fighting in the premises. However when it comes to maintenance the RP has to ensure the extinguishers are subject to a suitable system of maintenance and are maintained in an efficient state, in efficient working order, in good repair and a competent person is not mentioned. So providing the RP can prove he can meet those criteria he/she complies with the FSO.
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After (none too careful) research, the only slight window of hope is via BAFE or similar.
From one of the multitude of RR(FS)O guides
"Third-party certification schemes for fire
protection products and related services are an
effective means of providing the fullest possible
assurances, offering a level of quality, reliability
and safety that non-certificated products may
lack. This does not mean goods and services
that are not third-party approved are less
reliable, but there is no obvious way in which
this can be demonstrated.
Third-party quality assurance can offer comfort
both as a means of satisfying you that goods
and services you have purchased are fit for
purpose, and as a means of demonstrating that
you have complied with the law."
I presume when our marrer from Clapham stands up in court after his DHSS hostel has become charcoal, he will have to prove "best practice" in his fire safety activities. Checking them himself (and therefore certificating himself) after the above has been penned, may not be seen as such by the higher beakage.
It's a thin ice activity but I'm sure some will go for it and then throw blame at the manufacturer when it all goes wrong because the man from Claphams playful nephew set on off and left it half full in situ without telling him and that was never mentioned in the (self) service manual and neither was the fact that Mija pressure gauges (and all their ilk) stick on 'full' with alarming frequency and this kit has two of 'em.
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Reiver
I don't think our Risk people would go for these :o
Now, where did I put my bargepole ???
davo
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Next to mine in the barge pole rack Davo ;)
It be a wee bit funny that our friend from Clapham can now service his own extinguishers, but in the mind of the "must not use without 'proper' training" elf & safety jobsworth brigade, he can't actually operate them without being struck by self righteous lightning and being vapourised into a pretty red aerosol mist (and that brings us neatly onto the next group of dodgy self service extinguishers) ;D
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More info on this extinguisher. http://firebuyer.com/content/unveiling-next-generation-fire-extinguisher
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Interesting how the article claims they invented seize and squeeze extinguishers in 1968 as in the UK Pyrene had introduced this concept several years earlier in their stored pressure and CO2 ranges and the USA had been using it longer. I think what it really means is the UK Fire controlled discharge valve was invented then, not the first use of the operating principle.
Also 'seize & squeeze' was adopted as a trade mark by Chubb in the early 70's after they consolidated the extinguisher range from the various Rampart, Minimax, Read & Campbell and Pyrene used in the early days of Chubb.
Britannia suffer from being British manufacturers (cost) and as long as Chinese stuff remains at pocket money prices I don't think the revolution is here yet....
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Has anyone researched these to consider whether they and the maintenance regime, or rather the lack of it, would be considered suitable under the Order?
My first impression is that they may tick the boxes and, as such, are compliant.
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It's just another desperate sales gimmick to try to rack up a profit. Congratulations on having the bottle to try something but not this. Would you try to sell these things?
The end is nigh for another British firm. Hey ho.
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I must admit it's a bit of a gamble. UK Fire/Britannia have slipped further out of the mainstream over the years, primarily because of cost from my experience.
EN3 saw the floodgates open on cheaper European and Far/Middle Eastern product and traditional UK (& US) manufacture was hit hard with UK Fire & Amerex who formerly had stood up well in the trade to TG and Ranpart/Pyrene loosing trade customers left, right & centre.It was a further bitter blow when the largest independent fire protection company FPS finally buckled to the pressure of the conglomerates and UKF saw their biggest general market customer go 'in house' (to Gloria) for extinguisher product.
The acquisition of Firemaster's brand & products seemed a good way to re-enter the market in the retail/motor/leisure sector, but the ubiquitous aerosol extinguisher had taken a hammering by the now affordable availability of gauged refillable extinguishers championed by Guardian, Fire Blitz Firex/Firefly and Kidde's introduction of Gloria kit to the DIY market.
Unless the export/petrochemical market continues to hold up for Britannia , Firemark will be the only remaining mainstream UK extinguisher manufacturer with only a few small specialists in the aerospace & motor-sport markets to keep them company.
There is a couple of applications in my main sector where this 'maintenance free' product would benefit the client if the principle holds up in court, but on the whole it's traditional equipment for me.
Rather than 'innovations' in extinguishers like this I would far rather someone bring Cold Fire to the market here!
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Firemark (FPS) Bristol cease production this month.
That equals zero other than the UKF plastic one.
John
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Really?
And they spent a fortune recently revamping the website and everything!
Mind you I hardly see their stuff these days and their coup of supplying TYCO (who you would have thought would have used TOTAL stuff as they own them) was short lived as TYCO soon moved on to Excelsius (who seem to be hanging on via this contract too as their stuff isn't widely used).
If they are going it just leaves specialist market companies, a sad day!
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Don't forget Nuswift still manufacture ion the UK :P
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I'd love to see some proof of that - there is a big difference between full manufacture and assembling, most of the old Elland factory is out of use & is a redevelopment site (source Calderdale Council), BWH for the London Securities group has a lot of suspiciously Chinese looking deep drawns, valves and other bits and the Nu Swift brand stuff that still refuses to be simple seize & squeeze looks like it's from mainland Europe where their overseas subsidiaries stock it all.
(http://www.nu-swift.co.uk/nuswift/graphics/ext4.jpg)
They dodge saying made in the UK on all group sites, just that stuff is made in their own factory. Chubb & Jewel have their own exclusive factories too - in China.
If they are genuinely still making stuff a factory visit would be nice - I've been to Angus & part of UK Fire over the years, would be nice to see another!
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If they are genuinely still making stuff a factory visit would be nice
I don't work for them any more so I can't invite you ;D
Jactone still manufacture in the UK. I had a factory tour there a couple of years ago. Impressive burst testing.
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Yes, they do, but even they have had to pander to the cheap end of the market with their Economy range from Orientx in China (that well used manufacturer who supplies Firex/Firefly, Titan, TG S/X).
Google street viewed the Elland site, it's seen better days!
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Interesting read and product.
It has its faults but so does getting it serviced by an engineer. If people are reliant on an engineer they generally don't know anything is wrong until the tech points it out, Which could be months.
If people adopt their own checking properly it could actually mean less risk.
You can argue it either way
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And if you are reliant on a lot of the engineers out there you will still not know if it's going to work!
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If people adopt their own checking properly it could actually mean less risk.
If do believe Captain Porky is about to take off from runway 6 ;D
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As a matter of interest can the FAFFE engineers give the proportion of the extinguishers they sell are returned for refill because of being used on a fire? (Not for training purposes).
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I heard that the commercial arm of the Notts fire brigade is selling the Fireworld extinguishers now, however, they still offer servicing with it. Belts and braces??
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I heard that the commercial arm of the Notts fire brigade is selling the Fireworld extinguishers now, however, they still offer servicing with it. Belts and braces??
How much do they sell the range for?
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I don't disbelieve you but would be suprised if NFRS (Trading) Ltd had gone over to Britannia stuff (although Durham's extinguisher department were big users back in the day.
I would guess they suspect that most users won't bother with the user annual check so are offering to do it for them (easy money after all!), plus some premises may have a mix of traditional and Fireworld types.
Notts F&R have had an extinguisher division for years that had operated as commercially as it could for most of that time (i.e. local authority & similar premises). They actually service them properly & have been BAFE approved for years (unlike one 'rag & tag' brigade I could name who are still hanging on to a couple of sites by the skin of their teeth, having finally lost most of their LA contracts)
They used to use Thomas Glover for years then Saffire. They are the last organisation to install new total discharge extinguishers in the 1990's as they had a batch of the old 70's TG plastic headed water extinguishers made for them around 1989/1990 via Thorn Security. I remember filling a load of them prior to delivery at the Thorn branch in Sheffield at the time and wondered who had gone to the trouble of resurrecting a model discontinued around 1980, later to find them all over Nottingham LA premises. I managed to secure one for the collection few years back.
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I don't disbelieve you but would be suprised if NFRS (Trading) Ltd had gone over to Britannia stuff (although Durham's extinguisher department were big users back in the day.
I don't really know its only hearsay, as far as I can find out they do not have a commercial website (prices and such) its part of their FRS website and just providing brief details.
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I now have a price list for extinguishers from NFRS (Trading) Ltd and the top price is around fifty pounds for class A extinguishers but the manufacturers are not shown. Therefore at those prices I would assume they do not stock fireworld.
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I now have a price list for extinguishers from NFRS (Trading) Ltd and the top price is around fifty pounds for class A extinguishers but the manufacturers are not shown. Therefore at those prices I would assume they do not stock fireworld.
£50? Time I plied my wares over there.
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Possibly Jewel Saffire now as they were using Saffire just before they sold out.
£50 is about right for a decent mark up but as there is no money in the industry any more (& why standards have slipped) it can be undercut. Depending which make I put in I will charge less.
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Back to the OP I made, my regular trawl of manufacturer's has revealed that despite all the hoo-ha about the P50 range being maintenance free, in fact it only doesn't need a 5 year extended service but still needs an annual basic service by a competent person in addition to user checks, so much for 'no service required'........
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Anthony reference your comments on the P50 fire extinguisher, I am not sure where you are getting your information from ?
May I suggest you actually visit Britannia Fire and we can go through the benefits - or quite simply you can continue to comment via hear say.
Please either drop me an email andy.spence@britannia-fire.co.uk or call me on 01508 488416
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Regardless of whether these highly expensive extinguisher do or do not need annual maintenance by a competent person, part of the annual extinguisher service is to keep an eye on whether the cover is the correct type for the risks and sufficient in quantity. You may argue that the fire risk assessment reviews should monitor this but in my experience this does not usually happen.
I cannot see a use for these extinguishers. They were very quickly filed alongside the water mist extinguisher in my mind.
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I cannot see a use for these extinguishers. They were very quickly filed alongside the water mist extinguisher in my mind.
Check out Safelincs answer to your statement. http://www.safelincs-forum.co.uk/topic/697-maintenance-free-extinguishers/?hl=britannia#entry1164
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Anthony reference your comments on the P50 fire extinguisher, I am not sure where you are getting your information from ?
May I suggest you actually visit Britannia Fire and we can go through the benefits - or quite simply you can continue to comment via hear say.
Please either drop me an email andy.spence@britannia-fire.co.uk or call me on 01508 488416
The information is from your own latest brochure, I quote:
MAINTENANCE INSPECTION
The extinguisher maintenance programme is a simple
two step process which staff members can carry out on a
monthly basis.
-Visually check for damage
-Check the gauges are showing operational
pressure in green segment
"Yearly inspection by trained personnel or a Britannia
appointed distributor (giving third party qualification).
- Visually check for damage
-Check the gauges are showing operational
pressure using a magnet to zero - on removal the
gauge will show it is operational. If the pressure is in
the red segment refill under the 10 year
maintenance instructions
-Check the base for damage and
check the manufactured indicator is
within the 10 year life span
-Record inspection detail on the back of the
extinguisher (using a permanent marker) and in the
company log book"
Now I thought that the great idea behind the P50 wasn't just the use of a corrosion proof body, but the initial press suggested it was maintenance free and the double gauge was to allow the user to check without the danger from seized needles.
Yet your latest literature implies an annual service inspection is still required and for most customers who won't be training in house staff this will usually entail the cost of a service visit. I have read the linked forum that says the user gets trained and gauge magnets issued on purchase though - if this is the case, then I can see how it is still an attractive option.
But if I read your brochure alone it doesn't make it clear If I bought one I'd be able to do the service.
So it's great for marine use and places with in house trained staff (which should be all?) and 10 years between extended service is a definite cost saver not seen since Nu Swift's factory sealed powders.
I have suggested a few sites where these would be great, I'm not totally anti them, just a little confused (not by hear say but by official literature).
Now if you bring out a CO2 as well you will be on to something (I always thought you couldn't put a gauge on a CO2 but I have seen it done by a reputable and innovative Indian manufacturer).
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I cannot see a use for these extinguishers. They were very quickly filed alongside the water mist extinguisher in my mind.
Check out Safelincs answer to your statement. http://www.safelincs-forum.co.uk/topic/697-maintenance-free-extinguishers/?hl=britannia#entry1164
That link has no relevance to my previous post.
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I cannot see a use for these extinguishers. They were very quickly filed alongside the water mist extinguisher in my mind.
Check out Safelincs answer to your statement. http://www.safelincs-forum.co.uk/topic/697-maintenance-free-extinguishers/?hl=britannia#entry1164
That link has no relevance to my previous post.
You say "I cannot see a use for these extinguishers" but the link shows they are cost effective over the ten years which is a good reason for the RP to use them.
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You missed my point, but for the record, they might be cost effective over Safelincs extremely high service prices, but not necessarily over everyone else's. The example is based on a premises having one of these extinguishers - should there be a requirement for a higher quantity then the service cost per 'standard' unit would drop. They also picked a powder extinguisher for the example which is most costly to maintain discharge wise.
Now, if you read what I was actually saying, my dismissing these extinguishers wasn't based on cost (that's an easy argument) but an ongoing check that the level of cover is correct.
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The exinguisher is proving a huge success and solving a whole host of problems that the industry has had since the arrival of cheap chinese products.
We are a British Manufacturer and proud of what we have developed, we are all aware of the corrosion problems with extinguishers and we are all aware of issues in the Industry - the main one being, there are an awful lot of people out there servicing (allegedly) extinguishers for such a small amount of money it beggars belief, that they are indeed servicing the units correctly.
When we launched the P50 some people said that they wanted the option of a third party carrying out a compliance check and we indeed reacted and we published a new brochure.
Ps My offer of a visit still stands !
Pps the hear say quote, this was put because you said you had done your rounds !
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Although it pains me to admit it, the quality of some of more expensive Chinese manufactured kit is way and above that of some of the UK manufactured product. It's a shame but I can honestly say that as of this moment in time I have no interest in any available UK manufactured extinguishers based on 1) Price, 2) Quality, and in the case of your standard offering, appearance.
When we launched the P50 some people said that they wanted the option of a third party carrying out a compliance check and we indeed reacted and we published a new brochure.
So what you're saying is that you manufactured an expensive maintenance-free extinguisher, sold it to the end user and then they said to you that they need to have it maintained by a third party? Seems like an expensive mistake. So they need to have it maintained then. To what, BS5306-3? - unfortunately that standard doesn't apply to plastic bodied extinguishers.
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I'd love to visit actually. For a while in the late 90's I would supply your extinguishers and only really stopped on their cost, yet continue to use Britannia cartridge water's and foams for training as they withstand the constant discharging, stripping and recharging and being thrown around (I mean appropriately transported! ;) ) by our trainers.
Lancspro is correct that the once great UK industry isn't what it once was - one UK manufacturer has gone offshore in recent years and others have some QC issues, trying to find an extinguisher that lasts is difficult, Amerex is still there, your product (when I come across it, which is sadly rare since the demise of the original FPS, Broton Fire and Peterlee's switch to Zhejiang Winner) hasn't failed me, there isn't much else that stands out, although UTC's move back to the EU with Chubb and now for the trade TG Product's new ranges may change this.
Some of your customer's say they need third party servicing - did they say who told them - insurers or fire officers? Certainly as long as by following your user instructions for checks you would state a customer is following a "suitable system of maintenance" and the P50 is thus "maintained in an efficient state, in efficient working order and in good repair" there should be no need for annual external servicing as the requirements of the Fire Safety Order are met.
BS5306-3 does frown on non metal extinguishers, although to be fair in the UK previously only plastic extinguishers were in widespread use, mainly the small cartridge powders by Fireward that everyone from Betterware to Angus Fire in the 60's,70's and 80's (Although an experimental cartridge water was made in the 1970's for the MoD, one of the rarer extinguishers I have). The problem with these, like with plastic headcaps, is assessing stability of the shell against UV decay or damage that could result in rupture when pressurising.
However the P50 isn't a plastic extinguisher, it's a double shell, the inner kevlar composite pressure bearing part being protected by the outer polyethylene shell - so UV can't hurt it where it would be a risk. And for impact to be enough to even potentially threaten the inner shell it would have to be so substantial that the outer shell would be visually damaged/deformed.
BS5306-3 would need to be amended to account for this new technology - as they allowed for Nu Swift's exclusive product design then they could accomodate this.
You should do a water mist one and then you can rival Jewel (Class A,B,F) & SFFECO's (Class A,B,C,D,F) latest ideas....
The concept is growing on me!
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Anthony, your reply is encouraging...lets set up a visit ASAP you will be amazed how good this product is compared to normal extinguishers.
And yes you are right this is not a plastic extinguisher ....this extinguisher is for the record twice as strong as steel !
Also for the record we do a 12,000 cycle test on this unit , that means it is filled on a rig and holds pressure (25 bar) for 3 seconds then released 12,000 times it takes 3.5 days ........ thenm it is crushed then it is burts - max pressure and it exceeds 80 bar consistently ...the standrad for metal is 55 bar
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And yes you are right this is not a plastic extinguisher
You might want to check out what kevlar and polyethylene are.
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Lancspro - This is a composite fire extinguisher and has been approved By BSI and carrys the Kitemark along with the ships wheel.
I visited our supplier of Kevlar last month and was amazed to see that they are now able to make motorway bridges out of the same material !
I wonder if you will drive over them
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I don't dispute that. I originally stated that the accepted maintenance standard for fire extinguishers makes no allowance for plastic bodied extinguishers. You stated that the P50 is not plastic. I suggested you check that because Kevlar and polyethylene are most definitely plastics.
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Kevlar belongs to the aramid group of fibers family.
The issue regarding plastic fire extinguishers relates to what has been previously ben answered by Anthony and it relates to a ones sold by the likes of betterware in the 80's
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Kevlar belongs to the aramid group of fibers family.
I don't care whether it belongs to the Partridge family; the point is it's still a plastic.
The issue regarding plastic fire extinguishers relates to what has been previously ben answered by Anthony and it relates to a ones sold by the likes of betterware in the 80's
Really? Funny, I didn't see that mentioned in the standard.
You may have gathered that I won't be buying these nor recommending them to any of our clients, though this is mainly to do with the lack of an annual check that the level of cover is correct rather than them being plastic bodied. ;)
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Lancs pro...You may have also have gathered i do not care if you buy them or not....
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To be fair I wouldn't see most extinguisher maintenance firms offering them (unless at a very high price) as it's self defeating if not serviced,you only see the customer once in 10 years....
A suitably rated 2 litre foam & 2 litre ABC Powder in a 10 year low maintenance format would be nice for transport and small business as since the loss of the Firemaster limited life EN3 kitemarked 1 & 2 kilo powder and BS5423 900ml AFFF aerosols there has been a gap in the market - these clients often don't want the cost or hassle of external maintenance (which would cost per year almost what the extinguisher did to buy) and a disposable unit that could be visually checked in house and replaced every 5 years was a good way to get them to install up to date extinguishers rather than have nothing or that mouldering 1970's water stuck in the corner.
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Lancs pro...You may have also have gathered i do not care if you buy them or not....
Is this where you take your football home? ::) Maybe if you listened to the comments of service companies then you may understand what we need from manufacturer's rather than producing something that we can neither sell or maintain.
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No need to take the football home....I was just confirming your position
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No, not yet, But not sure for coming future
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The P60 is alive and kicking check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o57vPn3AQk#! and http://www.servicefreefireextinguisher.co.uk/dare-you-to-change-the-fire-extinguisher-revolution/#!
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Our engineers don't know whether to condemn or leave them alone.
Interestingly we were supplied with a sample recently. I decided to carry out the user annual maintenance. Took the magnet out of the base and tested both gauges.
One gauge was stuck so it failed the gauge test.
Now I am guessing this is condemned.
One company is saying that the P50 F6 can be installed instead of a C2 because it is safe for use on electrical equipment.
Wouldn't Multiplicity of types apply for the P50 F6 installed on the same premises as any other F6. The electrical arrow is going to introduce confusion.
Customers often think foam is safe for direct use on electrical equipment.
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Yes, if it fails the test it's condemned, but should be returned to the manufacturer for warranty replacement.
Several manufacturers are toying with the lightning flash on wets beyond Britannia who already do this as it's been permissible under EN3 in mainland Europe for decades to allow them to be marked suitable for direct use on electrical fires up to 1000V, France and Spain do this.
And of course the 2 main brands of water mist are already so marked (the third, Amerex UK, doesn't as a nod to the 'British' way of doing things although the original US models are!)
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Several manufacturers are toying with the lightning flash on wets beyond Britannia who already do this as it's been permissible under EN3 in mainland Europe for decades to allow them to be marked suitable for direct use on electrical fires up to 1000V, France and Spain do this.
The requirement in EN3 is that if a water based extinguisher has passed the 35kV test then it must state "suitable for use on live electrical equipment up to 1 000 V at a distance of 1 m". If it has not passed the test then it must state "WARNING: Do not use on live electrical equipment". Anything else would fail an audit to EN3. The interesting thing is that EN3 states the following just after the above: "NOTE Attention is drawn to national regulations or practice." Make of that what you will.
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Which is the get out clause for the BSI to say that wets cannot be used on electrical equipment and should not be marked as such (sells more extinguishers)
As far back as the 30's independent and scientifically accurate testing showed plain water extinguishers were safe on electrical apparatus, further tests in the 50's and 60's confirmed this - the big hazard was from the soda acid extinguisher which due to the salts formed in the solution during discharge were highly conductive and a positive danger.
In theory a general office could be provided with wets only and only specific electrical risks like switchrooms would need CO2. British Rail followed this philosophy and whilst admittedly electrical equipment was less prevalent in offices the guidance 'back in the day' was happy to have just water/gas extinguishers in these areas as the equipment wasn't much of a risk.
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I think there's some figures that quote 80% of fires in the workplace are extinguished with portables.....anyone know if there's a greater breakdown into types of extinguisher used to put those fires out??
John
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Other than the old FETA statistics, no. But they do give a far bigger breakdown, it's a while since I read them but IIRC the most commonly used types used to be water & CO2