Flat entrance doors

[Mar62]

I expect there is someone who has a similar experience as this question.
Client manages (not owns) several low level blocks of private residential blocks of flats (highest being ground and 4 upper), most have single staircase escape route, some have lobbies. The blocks of flats and the doors are all original to the period of around the 60's. During the risk assessments we were able to gain access to 1 flat per block to look at the door. Usual issues are rising butt hinges, no closers fitted or where they were fitted they have been removed, letterboxes etc. I have made recommendations such as a full inspection of all doors to get an overall report of the doors, and to fit door closers and replace rising butt hinges and depending on the doors 'overall' to develop a longer term plan to replace the doors.
The managing agent has said that despite him discussing this with the resident committees and various residents, they are not prepared to spend money on door closers, changing hinges and especially no plans to replace ANY doors. I have advised for them to keep records of all communications and meetings. SO my question is - despite the managing agent trying, where in LAW would they stand if there were a fire incident. Would it come down to the resident committee and / or the individual resident for not ensuring that THEIR front door was able to perform as originally intended as a fire door? Has anyone had any similar experiences?

[Tom Sutton]

You have to decide who the Responsible Persons are, the owners/freeholders or the managing agent. Because it is the RP who will be prosecuted if an audit by the local FRS is conducted and it will all depend on who has control of the premises.

If the premises is involved in a serious fire then I am sure the FRS will conduct an audit or it could be just a routine audit.

[AnthonyB]

As part of exercising all avenues to get this sorted the LGA Guide implies that the agent should pursue the issue via the Local Authority EHO as they can force the changes by using the Housing Act which applies to each dwelling not just the common parts.

[William 29]

As part of exercising all avenues to get this sorted the LGA Guide implies that the agent should pursue the issue via the Local Authority EHO as they can force the changes by using the Housing Act which applies to each dwelling not just the common parts.

Agreed, I would look at Section 20 of the Housing Act to enforce the doors to at least have a positive self-closer and ensure they are fit for purpose? The doors could be enforced under the RRFSO and Notice service to get them changed on the occupant of the flat if it is them that has "control" over the doors, but to my knowledge this has never been implemented?

[colin todd]

This is very very common.  In one of many cases in which I was involved a large met FRS in a capital city (but not in Wales) threatened to issue notices on leaseholders as Article 5(3) persons, which I think is totally kosher (can one still describe things as kosher?) but then the residents stamped their feet and said BOO!!! and so the FRS ran for cover under the nearest T/l, which they had previously had to use when there was actually   a fire, a s/c was not on the door of the flat and the corridor filled with smoke.  The local authority of course are always too busy to mobilise to such matters, but eventually got round to it and served notices.  They are not so afraid of people stamping their feet and took residents to court when they did not comply with the notices re the doors.

I have an impasse (which is French for impasse) somewhere else in the country over a similar matter (but not doors this time).  The FRS feel it is a matter for the LA, but may take action under the FSO if the LA do not.  I last spoke to the LA early in the year when they said it was not a Cat 2 hazard.  I said it was. They went off to think about it (and as far as I know are still thinking, or possibly not).

[Mar62]

Thank you all and thank you Colin. I think the managing agent feels in the middle of it and he is doing all he can to get the work done but cannot because the resident committee wont provide funds and the residents own their front door. I feel as though i have provided fair recommendations in the FRA but the residents dont seem to want to listen or do anything plus they are mostly of an older age group and so would potentially require more time to evacuate should it be necessary.