Radio alarm systems for life safety- response to low battery warning

[Midland Retty]

I certainly would never denigrate a Fire Officer who made an honest mistake or did something based on what he honestly believed was right, even if it turned out to be wrong.

Why not ? I bloomin' well would.... and I'm one myself....  

[Midland Retty]

Fire Officers are perfect, never make mistakes and know everything about everything.

Thats very true

[Benzerari]

A care home has a radio linked addressable system with lithium batteries. There is a low battery warning alarm for each device which gives early warning of batteries needing replacement and then ultimately a battery failure alert.   The system also has 3 monthly maintenance visits and weekly testing all logged in accordance with BS5839.

For a decade the practice at the home has been to wait until 8 devices are in low battery alarm before calling in the engineers.
The home has recently been served with an enforcement notice " to instigate a proper system of maintenance for the fire detectors". Whilst not explicit in the notice the fire officer advised the manager that they should call out the engineer as soon as a single device goes into low battery warning.  

This would increase service costs eight fold. During the last  decade no device has ever changed to battery failure before being attended to.

Any opinions please?

In my opinion; radio system, such 5000 of EMS has an option to check the batteries level of every single device, any battery below say 90% should be changed ( or what ever % as agreed ) this will reduce the cost of each call out to change only the flat one, also reduce unecessary cost of changing all batteries in once particularly if they haven't been fitted in the same day...

Sorry; if it's already been said in some posts as I didn't manage to read all threads, but found this topic interesting, as we recently had agreement from customer, to change the whole site's batteries with 3 panels say in total 600 devices and some interface units too...

2 weeks of hard job !

[diver233]

We specialise in Electro-detector radio gear and on a battery warning you will normally get 60 days notice. How ever we advise our clients to call us soon as they get the fault on the system. We then ensure next time someone is in the area they pop in and change the battery, with out massive costs to the end user.
Thats just the way we do it, we try if possible to look after customers who have looked after us for the last 5 years, if you see what I mean

[Benzerari]

We specialise in Electro-detector radio gear and on a battery warning you will normally get 60 days notice. How ever we advise our clients to call us soon as they get the fault on the system. We then ensure next time someone is in the area they pop in and change the battery, with out massive costs to the end user.
Thats just the way we do it, we try if possible to look after customers who have looked after us for the last 5 years, if you see what I mean

Is the link below yours
http://www.lindumfire.co.uk/Lindum%20Fire%20Services_files/Page1584.htm

if yes I would like to know the prices please

[Rosjes]

Benzerari, I think you'll find that the ems system will only allow you to interrogate battery condition for lithium batteries and as far as I'm aware they (ems) have used alkaline cells for the last 5 years at least. Suggest checking with David Rooney as I believe he is conversant with ems.

[Benzerari]

Benzerari, I think you'll find that the ems system will only allow you to interrogate battery condition for lithium batteries and as far as I'm aware they (ems) have used alkaline cells for the last 5 years at least. Suggest checking with David Rooney as I believe he is conversant with ems.

Lithium batteries as I am aware, are within the main PCB panel 5000, or its interface’s PCBs, they are not within the devices them selves (manual call point, smoke sounder, heat sounder, single smoke, single heat, single sounder,...), these latters have: As, AAs, and AAAs batteries. In theory every 5 years all sort of batteries have to be changed, but in practice it is not always the case… they may have to be changed before that limit of time… and the option of ‘device database’ of EMS 5000 panel can display every single device’s: signal level, head value, and batteries level too… if I am wrong please feel free you or Dave to correct me, none is pefect mate, we are here to learn from each others.

Thank you

[Allen Higginson]

The EMS uses alkaline batts but gives a 30 day notice of failure - see link below for data sheet relating to detectors  http://www.emsgroup.co.uk/download/5100.pdf and the general link to the datasheets http://www.emsgroup.co.uk/pages/support/downl-fs.htm

[Benzerari]

The EMS uses alkaline batts but gives a 30 day notice of failure - see link below for data sheet relating to detectors  http://www.emsgroup.co.uk/download/5100.pdf and the general link to the datasheets http://www.emsgroup.co.uk/pages/support/downl-fs.htm

Alkaline batt. for ( devices ) and lethium batt. for ( PCBs of the panel 5000 and any other used interface's PCBs... )    

The 5 years life is just in theory... all EMS panels I have dealt with, we have changed their batt. in 2 or 3 years time  probably some one else may have different experience... and its causes...

[Graeme]

Benzerari, I think you'll find that the ems system will only allow you to interrogate battery condition for lithium batteries and as far as I'm aware they (ems) have used alkaline cells for the last 5 years at least. Suggest checking with David Rooney as I believe he is conversant with ems.

Lithium batteries as I am aware, are within the main PCB panel 5000, or its interface’s PCBs, they are not within the devices them selves (manual call point, smoke sounder, heat sounder, single smoke, single heat, single sounder,...), these latters have: As, AAs, and AAAs batteries. In theory every 5 years all sort of batteries have to be changed, but in practice it is not always the case… they may have to be changed before that limit of time… and the option of ‘device database’ of EMS 5000 panel can display every single device’s: signal level, head value, and batteries level too… if I am wrong please feel free you or Dave to correct me, none is pefect mate, we are here to learn from each others.

Thank you

-you can't check battery levels on I/O units

[Benzerari]

Benzerari, I think you'll find that the ems system will only allow you to interrogate battery condition for lithium batteries and as far as I'm aware they (ems) have used alkaline cells for the last 5 years at least. Suggest checking with David Rooney as I believe he is conversant with ems.

Lithium batteries as I am aware, are within the main PCB panel 5000, or its interface’s PCBs, they are not within the devices them selves (manual call point, smoke sounder, heat sounder, single smoke, single heat, single sounder,...), these latters have: As, AAs, and AAAs batteries. In theory every 5 years all sort of batteries have to be changed, but in practice it is not always the case… they may have to be changed before that limit of time… and the option of ‘device database’ of EMS 5000 panel can display every single device’s: signal level, head value, and batteries level too… if I am wrong please feel free you or Dave to correct me, none is pefect mate, we are here to learn from each others.

Thank you

-you can't check battery levels on I/O units

Interfaces have got Lethium batt at PCB level and 2.1-3Ah Batt. if I remember, and NOT Alcalines ones.

You still can check batt. level in any input or output devices and not interfaces like (I/O units), even this latters still have batt. monitoring, if it get flat, the system would show I/O unit fault.

Also I can NOT remember of any way of how to check the lethium batt. level If there is! (as claimed by Rosjes), I will have a look next time I come across some EMS system, and seek advice from EMS Tech support... I think that's the confusing point raised by Rosjes... I think he means the the other way round.

Alcalines you can check them, and Lethium you can't!

[Graeme]

you can check levels of devices with alkaline cells but I/O's give a battery left as 000.

[David Rooney]

Sorry have been camping .......!


1.    you can't check battery levels of any alkaline powered device.

2.    you can't check "real" levels of lithium powered devices... the figure you look at on the panel is a figure generated by a timer within the software.

A few years ago EMS brought out an upgrade because the panels were bringing up multiple battery faults "premarturely", eg before the alleged 5 year battery life.

The firmware upgrade simply reset and slowed down the panel timer.......

[Benzerari]

Sorry have been camping .......!


1.    you can't check battery levels of any alkaline powered device.

2.    you can't check "real" levels of lithium powered devices... the figure you look at on the panel is a figure generated by a timer within the software.

A few years ago EMS brought out an upgrade because the panels were bringing up multiple battery faults "premarturely", eg before the alleged 5 year battery life.

The firmware upgrade simply reset and slowed down the panel timer.......

Dave;

What about what you see in 'device data base' about head value, signal level, batteries level are all generated by a timer within the software as you said?

[Benzerari]

Have confirmed today with EMS Tec. Support, when coming across one of their systems..., they said the only way to see device's batteries level fault, is when it’s displayed faulty, and the event log records it with the message 'supply management', in which they said, it means ‘battery fault’.

Hence wait to get this message on the event log in order to decide of changing them.

As for measuring them, is not always evident, since older type of detectors (the one we have in this site), the batteries are soldered on the PCB, and it is not really advisable to unsolder them for the sake of testing them during service visit.

Further knowledge every day...