Author Topic: hose reels  (Read 13651 times)

Offline ps

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hose reels
« on: June 29, 2009, 03:01:23 PM »
Hi all - glad this site is up and running again - I've missed having people to bounce ideas with>

I wonder if I can get a view on hose reels.

I've been looking at an 11 story tower block (student accommodation) and its got hoses on each floor by the stairwell.  They are maintained, but often damaged by students etc.  I'm not a fan of hoses, no ones trained, if they are run-out people escaping may trip and they will keep the fire doors open and they have a get out and don't try and fight the fire policy any way.Is there any reason why I cant suggest that they decommission them and replace with water extinguishers for use if trapped? (for some reason these are less attractive to students!)

Building already has risers which are maintained for use by the brigade.

 Also - I know there's something called the London Building Acts that required them at some stage - does this still apply - and if so how do I find out if it applies in my circs?

Many thanks in anticipation of yet more wise words...

PS


Midland Retty

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Re: hose reels
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2009, 03:55:20 PM »
The short answer is simply "no" - there is no reason why you can't remove them

The inherent problems with hoses (some you have already mentioned, and there are several others) have meant that almost all premises I've ever dealt with which previously had them have now removed them.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2009, 04:03:04 PM by Midland Retty »

Offline ps

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Re: hose reels
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2009, 04:03:53 PM »
thanks Betty!

If you find yourself with a spare couple of moments I'd be grateful if you could let me have your view on other problems with them - more ammo if I need it, although I think they are likely to go with the suggestion.

PS


Offline kurnal

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Re: hose reels
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2009, 05:03:55 PM »
If they were installed in accordance with S20 then you would be wise to confirm removal with fire authority. As Betty says there should not be a problem. (Puts a whole new perspective on Mrs Betty INNL)

Who would use the hosereels? As you know the fire service would not wish to because in accordance with their  SSOW they would want something that is guaranteed to be maintained and in good working order with known flow rate. They will always pefer their own high pressure hosereels running at about 25-30 Bar or hose from the riser than your old dribbler running at 1-2  Bars if you are lucky.


Offline ps

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Re: hose reels
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2009, 05:57:48 PM »
Story of my life!

Thanks for input - is Section 20 part of the London Building Acts?


Offline ps

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Re: hose reels
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2009, 10:30:48 AM »
perfect - thanks Kurnal -just a thought - why does it only apply in inner London?

Is it the potential of the close proximity of other tall buildings?  The one I'm looking at may be just over 30 meters (11 storeys, including ground) and I'm assuming 3 metres per story.

So I'm assuming I don't have to apply this standard as my building is in outer London with no other tall buildings in sight?

So the logic of dodgey hoses can still apply and I can recommend removal and replacement with fire extinguishers?


Offline AnthonyB

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Re: hose reels
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2009, 01:45:10 PM »
In a past thread(s) I've put the long list of reasons against reels & dug this one out:

"Reels are very suited to warehouses, industry & large open spaces, but in offices we find the following:

1) Most reels are not boosted and do not meet flow rate requirements
2) The location of many reels requires them to be run through fire doors, including those onto protected routes & through protected lobbies, thus rendering compartmentation useless
3) People leaving & fire fighters entering can trip over them
4) Despite the impression on training films most reels require two people, one on the drum, one with the hose, even where the reel is annually serviced (which often just entails seeing if water comes out & if you are VERY lucky a flow test on the highest reel)
5) They have an unlimited supply with the risk of staff doing a "towering inferno" & fighting the fire longer than appropriate
6) The most likely source of origin of fire in a modern office is likely to be electrical - water being shot about at 30l/min isn't really helpful
7) They do leak from time to time and are expensive to maintain adequately, more than once they've caused floods"

Add to that water hygiene issues with water stood stagnant in a warm building for long periods of time.

s20 is no longer a barrier to reel removal (they could always be exempted from being provided under s144 by the BCO anyway) and several London buildings have removed them - as long as you can justify it in an FRA you won't often get an objection.
Anthony Buck
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Offline colin todd

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Re: hose reels
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2009, 07:36:25 PM »
Kurnal, s20 is not enforced by LFEPA.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline kurnal

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Re: hose reels
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2009, 10:51:42 PM »
Yes but would they have powers to enforce under the FSO article 38? (it they were so minded which I doubt)

Who was originally intended to use equipment provided under S20?

Could it not be construed as being used by firefighters for their protection?

Offline ps

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Re: hose reels
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2009, 04:23:52 PM »
If there's a wet riser - aren't we home and dry (excuse the pun)?