Wire Burn Test!!!

[Thomas Brookes]

I have just had a request from a client, and thought I would ask if anyone knows more about this. They have recently gained a new customer who has done a audit on our client.
They have asked for a Wire Burn Test to be done in the comms room, to ensure the smoke detectors will pick up smoke.
The only wire burn test I have come across is when you attach a measured length of cable to a special piece of equipment, a certain voltage is passed through the cable which causes the cable insulation to melt and burn giving off smoke.
It is not something we would do or have heard of being done for normal testing of a BS5839-1 fire alarm, but I looked into it for the client after finding some information explained what I had found out and what I new. As far as I can gather this is more of an american idea NFPA 76 ?( I know Kidde Fire Protection used to do a Hot wire box) see http://www.kfp.co.uk/utcfs/ws-438/Assets/ASD%20HWTB%20User%20Guide.pdf .
Any how after explaining this the lady said " Thats not what the consultant said to do, he said all you do is set fire to a piece of cable on a board".

I asked what meaningful information he was going to get from this & if its not a measured scentific test that why not use a smoke stick or smoke pellet,

Anyway if anyone can shed more light on this I would be grateful.

[nearlythere]

Sounds like the dinosaur method of testing detection. The consultant has obviously yet to embrace technical progress. Would it not be better with a bucket of burning oil and then you could carry it around the building? Better still what about a flame thrower?

[Thomas Brookes]

We are not talking a little back street office here, 4 storey, 200 plus employees owned by a PLC.

[nearlythere]

We are not talking a little back street office here, 4 storey, 200 plus employees owned by a PLC.

So you think the bucket of burning oil and the flame thrower tests might be a little OTT then?

[Allen Higginson]

I have just had a request from a client, and thought I would ask if anyone knows more about this. They have recently gained a new customer who has done a audit on our client.
They have asked for a Wire Burn Test to be done in the comms room, to ensure the smoke detectors will pick up smoke.
The only wire burn test I have come across is when you attach a measured length of cable to a special piece of equipment, a certain voltage is passed through the cable which causes the cable insulation to melt and burn giving off smoke.
It is not something we would do or have heard of being done for normal testing of a BS5839-1 fire alarm, but I looked into it for the client after finding some information explained what I had found out and what I new. As far as I can gather this is more of an american idea NFPA 76 ?( I know Kidde Fire Protection used to do a Hot wire box) see http://www.kfp.co.uk/utcfs/ws-438/Assets/ASD%20HWTB%20User%20Guide.pdf .
Any how after explaining this the lady said " Thats not what the consultant said to do, he said all you do is set fire to a piece of cable on a board".

I asked what meaningful information he was going to get from this & if its not a measured scentific test that why not use a smoke stick or smoke pellet,

Anyway if anyone can shed more light on this I would be grateful.

There was a BFPSA guide for aspirating systems and ,depending on the design spec for the system,there are specific tests for them - one being the wire burning test.
However,someone has "borrowed" by paper copy of the guide to PDF it and never given it back!

[Thomas Brookes]

This is point detectors

[Allen Higginson]

This is point detectors

Sorry,missed that entirely Thomas.
I'd advise the client to go to the consultant and tell them to read up on section 6:45.4 of 5839 as below -

"d) Point smoke detectors should be functionally tested by a method that confirms that smoke can enter the detector chamber and produce a fire alarm signal (e.g. by use of apparatus that generates simulated smoke or suitable aerosols around the detector). It should be ensured that the material used does not cause damage to, or affect the subsequent performance of, the detector; the manufacturer’s guidance on suitable materials should be followed."

[Thomas Brookes]

I spoke to apollo this morning, after the tech man stopped laughing said it was not something they would recomend

[David Rooney]

I posted this earlier but it appears to have disappeared....!!!

The wire burn won't produce enough smoke to set a standard detector off less you're 2" away..... but I do have a "hot box" if you want to try....

From an old Kidde Hart manual.....
 
The burning wire test is considered the most representative test of incipient fire hazard detection.

The equipment required to do the tests is as follows: -

10/0.1mm wire, with a total radius of 0.3mm including the PVC insulation.
A 6V AC source of at least 15 Amps rating.
A stopwatch.

Note - A response is signified as an increase of 3 or more bars above ambient – each bar representing a 10% increase in detected smoke levels.

TEST 1 -   Ultra high sensitivity BT test

Connect two 1 metre lengths of 10/0.1mm wire across the 6V ac source for a period of two minutes. The detection system should respond within a further 2 minutes maximum.

TEST 2-   Very High Sensitivity B.T. test

This is the same as test 1 using a 1 metre length of 10/0.1mm wire.

[Wiz]

Thomas, I too have never heard of this 'wire burn' test.

It certainly sounds like an old-fashioned method of creating smoke that could be used to test a detector. It also sounds like something that if it was really important and a current popular useful test method then we would all know about it!

The link you posted about the Kidde 'hot wire' test box mentions British Standards that are not that old, so it seems that this is a fairly current piece of test equipment.

I do also note that the Kidde information does mention that the tester is used for testing 'very high sensitivity detectors' and therefore this may not be relevant for anything else and probably not for standard modern point detectors.

Since there doesn't appear to be anything known as a 'wire burn' test, surely the only test (and most relevant test)you need to carry out is that test that is recommended by the manufacturers of the equipment being tested! Contact them and ask them what they recommend.

Obviously, a customer can ask you to carry out whatever test they like (if they are willing to pay for it and indemnify you for any resultant damage) but if it is not a test that is generally recognised then they need to give you full written details of how to carry out 'their' test etc.

[David Rooney]

Wiz... the hotwire test is as you say specifically for aspirating systems..... there are other tests but this is still very current (!)

It's also included in the BFPSA COP for Aspirating systems 2005... there may be a more current version but am not sure.

[Thomas Brookes]

Hello David,
Do you know where the equipment is availible from?, also with BFPSA no longer being in exsistance does this still apply.

[David Rooney]

Equipment is available from Airsence Technology... Stevenage.

They can probably telly you if the COP is still current... but its a waste of time doing the test on a normal point detector... we've tried it in computer rooms when testing HSSDs....

As said.. I've got the kit if the job's local ish and you really want to try it....

[colin todd]

Tam, This is the old hot wire test from the previous version of BS 6266. We never meant it to be used on normal point type smoke detectors. It was first deveoped by BT ( bloody terrible, which describes the standard of service they provide) to test aspirating systems in telephone exchanges.

Buzzy, I find myself in Belfast for 5 nights, and am prepared to enlighten you on the history of this test in return for copious quantities of Bushmills at Benedicts.

[Thomas Brookes]

Thank you all, its unusual for me to be so in the dark about testing, but you have really give me the answers I was looking for.