Author Topic: AFD inside kitchen ducting  (Read 15026 times)

messy

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AFD inside kitchen ducting
« on: October 21, 2008, 03:43:02 PM »
Ducting from a commercial kitchen passes through sleeping accomodation above. These are two separate occupiers. The RP (of the sleeping risk) wants AFD to detect fire within the ducting, to operate the sounders and dampers. This follows a post (ducting) fire review of the FRA which noted that the AFD failed to pick up this fire until it was somewhat out of control

What sort of detection equipment (if any) could cope/survive within the most harshest of environments as inside kitchen vent ducting, be able to detect a fire , and not give UwFS??

Is this possible??

Offline Thebeardedyorkshireman

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AFD inside kitchen ducting
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2008, 05:16:37 PM »
a solution would be to install mechanical stats. Way back in the 1970's I started using pye ether stats which I now believe are called hawco detect-o-fire. These are a bi metalic detector in an environmental enclosure (stainless probe) which you mount through the wall of the duct and configure like a heat detector. Remember to stop the fan before you close the damper or you may stop one fire and start another!!
Dave

Offline kurnal

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AFD inside kitchen ducting
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2008, 05:28:57 PM »
Nice one Dave.

The first step of all is to carry out a fire risk assessment of the catering extract Ventilation system, for which the Association of British Insurers have produced excellent guidance, written and produced by BSRIA.  www.bsria.co.uk, 01344426511, ISBN 0860225887   "fire risk assessment- catering extract ventilation". I think Chris Houston posted a link to it on this forum a while ago.

Offline Allen Higginson

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AFD inside kitchen ducting
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2008, 07:42:29 PM »
With reference to the Hawco (Fenwall) tats you'll need to know the maximum operating temperature within the duct. You then order detectors at a specific temperature above this (which for the life of me I can't remember right now).
They are expensive items but are efficient due to the limited mumber of moving/working parts.
Make sure (if you go down this route) to order the model with the indicator as it's a pain tracing which one has gone off otherwise!

messy

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AFD inside kitchen ducting
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2008, 08:03:23 PM »
Thanks for the input. I had never heard of this bit of kit.

I have had a look at the Company's website ( http://www.hawco.co.uk/products.asp?id=312&lid=332&lm=4 ) and it looks like it might be just the job

Thanks again

Offline colin todd

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AFD inside kitchen ducting
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2008, 12:12:19 AM »
Messy, fire dampers should not be provided in kitchen extract ducting. The problem should be dealt with by passive protection, not automatically operated dampers.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline Ricardo

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AFD inside kitchen ducting
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2008, 10:43:26 AM »
Quote from: kurnal
I think Chris Houston posted a link to it on this forum a while ago.
See -  https://infonet.bsria.co.uk/books-downloads/sample/?67587

It clarifies what Colin has said above

messy

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AFD inside kitchen ducting
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2008, 02:40:33 PM »
Colin (nice to see you are back - I think!) and Ricardo - I wasn't aware of the damper restrictions.

Thanks for the info and link

Offline colin todd

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AFD inside kitchen ducting
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2008, 01:07:37 AM »
Messy, a lot of people are not aware of this. However, I am always willing to help the greatest fire and rescue service in the whole of .........well London, in view of the clear training needs and the tendency to prefer to spend the ratepayers money on equality and diversity.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

messy

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AFD inside kitchen ducting
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2008, 08:23:00 PM »
Colin, thank you for your kind words. As for wasting money, you don't know the half of it.

I can get a equal ops course very easily and am often dragged to meetings to hear the latest management 'Hot talk' on the most recent flavour of the month. But if I ask my bosses for some training on BS9999 or the Lacors guide  (ie the basic tools to do the job) and they look at you as if it's you which is the nutter!!

Unfortunately, the lure of my pension prohibits me from adding further details, but the PC lunatics have definitely taken over this asylum.

Offline colin todd

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AFD inside kitchen ducting
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2008, 09:58:04 PM »
But Messy, it's all fascinating stuff, cos its much more important that a woman is not offended by calling her dear, than saving life from fire in buildings-get with the times. When I did a course for the soon to be providers of your pension, they were more interested in my assertion that dyslexics rool KO and that Scots people are mean than anything I had to say about fire safety. It was all so interesting that in the greatest fire brigade in the whole of..............well....a well known capital city, one cannot brainstorm without upsetting epileptic people apparently. Equally, they told me it was ok to say that a central heating system should be man enough to heat a building without portable heaters. It's quite confusing, but, as I say, fascinating.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates