Author Topic: LPCB registration ?  (Read 22508 times)

Offline Allen Higginson

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LPCB registration ?
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2008, 11:53:59 PM »
Quote from: Benzerari
Outstandings:   ( ? )

1   -   Would SP203 covering all modules be equivalent to LPS1014?
NOT DIRECTLY
2   -   On what basis Government projects requires a company certified to LPS1014 rather than SP203?
BECAUSE THAT IS THEIR PREFERENCE

3   -   Is BAFE more Government related rather than LPCB?

4   -   Why BAFE and LPCB are not setting up one standard certification rather than two?
BECAUSE THEY EACH THINK THAT THEY ARE BETTER THAN THE OTHER ONE

5   -   If the FIA (Ex-BFPSA) is in charge to train engineers to do install, servicing, commissioning by the book, why should a company needs extra certification (as a company) such LPS1014 or SP203?
PREFERENCE

6   -  Why FIA, BAFE, LPCB are not acting to setup one single standard certification?
SEE 4!!

Chris Houston

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« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2008, 12:29:17 PM »
1 I'd guess so
2 don't understand the question
3 nope. Both independent.
4 competition is a GOOD thing
5 I think FIA is a trade body - I.e. They are there to promote members interests first while the others should be more like regulators.
6 they are in competition with each other. This is a GOOD thing

Offline Benzerari

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« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2008, 02:55:53 PM »
In my opinion; if (FIA, BAFE, LPCB) are unified in one strong body, they all will gain much prosperity, quality, and efficiency... and for all sides, this costs much better than individual profits gained through competition. But, I agree unification will take much time to occur till substantial requirements are well identified. Since building is much harder than splitting... :)

Graeme

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« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2008, 05:01:20 PM »
i was asked yesterday what is the point of companies who sit the FIA courses and pass then have to go and get third party accreditation.

simple answer for me as i only had to look at half the numpties from intruder companies trying to make a few quid in fire who all struggled with the design course and only passed by help and looking over their mates shoulder.

It would be a joke if they then were fully qualified to do fire as it was blatantly obvious they were out their depths on a course that was easy if you already had a fire background.

Chris Houston

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« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2008, 07:30:58 PM »
Quote from: Benzerari
In my opinion; if (FIA, BAFE, LPCB) are unified in one strong body, they all will gain much prosperity, quality, and efficiency... and for all sides, this costs much better than individual profits gained through competition. But, I agree unification will take much time to occur till substantial requirements are well identified. Since building is much harder than splitting... :)
And presumably you also think it would be good for shoppers if Tesco, Asda, Morrisons and all the other supermarkets joined together to make loads more money and saves us having to choose between different shops?

Of course not, competition keeps the price down and gives buyers a choice.

Offline Benzerari

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« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2008, 11:01:18 AM »
Quote from: Chris Houston
Quote from: Benzerari
In my opinion; if (FIA, BAFE, LPCB) are unified in one strong body, they all will gain much prosperity, quality, and efficiency... and for all sides, this costs much better than individual profits gained through competition. But, I agree unification will take much time to occur till substantial requirements are well identified. Since building is much harder than splitting... :)
And presumably you also think it would be good for shoppers if Tesco, Asda, Morrisons and all the other supermarkets joined together to make loads more money and saves us having to choose between different shops?

Of course not, competition keeps the price down and gives buyers a choice.
This is a good example probably in the general business related..., but I think it doesn't totally much the case in here..., since getting certified to FIA, BAFE and/or LPCB, is like buying the trade mark, to get your business well considered by others (your customers), while shopping from Asda, Morison or Tesco..., is not going to influence much people, as the product will end up to be consumed (in the Tammy) or in some other ways...,

Otherwise some other group of experts from industry and academia and they actually exist, will carry on their own research in fire engineering and then setup other standard than BS, in which in your thought, it's part of the competition and it will be good...?

Therefore, we will be in a similar position..., this can happen, since not every thing is covered in BS, and not every thing is mentioned is clear enough to all users, it depends to their interpretations too...?

What do you think?

Offline Benzerari

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« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2008, 11:16:00 AM »
Also in my understanding, none of them is better than the others, every one is just good enough, and every one could definitely be better off if unified with others... and the reasons as stated previously, since these bodies FIA, BAFE and LPCB are all nationals they do exist in the same country, and not in different countries and continents, Further more BS and EN are trying as much as they can to be one standard, and similar to other standards too, why still giving justifications by the name of competition..., to local (national) bodies FIA, BAFE and LPCB for not being one body.

What do you think? :)

Offline Benzerari

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« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2008, 11:23:45 AM »
Quote from: Graeme
i was asked yesterday what is the point of companies who sit the FIA courses and pass then have to go and get third party accreditation.

simple answer for me as i only had to look at half the numpties from intruder companies trying to make a few quid in fire who all struggled with the design course and only passed by help and looking over their mates shoulder.

It would be a joke if they then were fully qualified to do fire as it was blatantly obvious they were out their depths on a course that was easy if you already had a fire background.
Also, the fundamental difference is that fire industry is well backed by the legislation..., while Intruder industry is NOT, since it still down to the tenant to cover their property from burglars. If they don’t, they would blame only themselves if… :)

Chris Houston

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« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2008, 03:00:47 PM »
There are already plenty alternatives to British Standards.  NFPA standards, FM Global standards, UL standards, LPCB standards.

Alternative approval bodies is not unique to the fire alarm trade either.  Intruder alarm contractors can seek NSI or SSAIB accreditation.  Electricians can choose between ECA and NICEIC.  

I still think that competition is good, that it keeps the service providers on their toes and costs down.

Offline Benzerari

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« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2008, 03:59:45 PM »
Quote from: Chris Houston
There are already plenty alternatives to British Standards.  NFPA standards, FM Global standards, UL standards, LPCB standards.

Alternative approval bodies is not unique to the fire alarm trade either.  Intruder alarm contractors can seek NSI or SSAIB accreditation.  Electricians can choose between ECA and NICEIC.  

I still think that competition is good, that it keeps the service providers on their toes and costs down.
Thanks Chris this is new to me I found it in:  http://www.fmglobal.com/page.aspx?id=50010102

But; one single course that costs about £300 just to tell me what's written in BS and tels me his own version of interpretation, didn't cut the cost down, didn't? Also the cost of each BS printout is still even more than £300. where is the benefit of this competition?

Chris Houston

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« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2008, 05:20:48 PM »
The concept that "the more people selling something, the lower the price will be" is basic economics.  I think greater minds then myself have adequatly proven the theory over the years without me needing to explain it on FireNet.

Offline Benzerari

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« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2008, 06:54:02 PM »
Quote from: Chris Houston
The concept that "the more people selling something, the lower the price will be" is basic economics.  I think greater minds then myself have adequatly proven the theory over the years without me needing to explain it on FireNet.
You don't need to explain the general theory, it's fairly clear, it's rather its application to the issue we are talking about which is not ???? :)

Chris Houston

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« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2008, 08:40:25 PM »
the prices seem reasonable to me. You suggestion of mergers seems unlikely to result in the merged organisation choosing to drop prices after eliminating what competition previously existed.

Offline Benzerari

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« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2008, 09:15:32 PM »
Quote from: Chris Houston
the prices seem reasonable to me. You suggestion of mergers seems unlikely to result in the merged organisation choosing to drop prices after eliminating what competition previously existed.
If merging up the businesses will soar up the prices, because of no more competition, I would be the first to drop out, the idea of merging businesses... :)

Offline Benzerari

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« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2008, 07:00:29 PM »
Nearly; £3 Billion/year have been spent, but are we doing enough? To prevent fire from killing, damaging, struggling businesses... etc?

Does it deserve?