Author Topic: USE OF INTERNET BULLETIN BOARDS BY CONSULTANTS  (Read 24313 times)

Offline colin todd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3473
  • Civilianize enforcement -you know it makes sense.
    • http://www.cstodd.co.uk
USE OF INTERNET BULLETIN BOARDS BY CONSULTANTS
« on: April 03, 2009, 01:07:53 AM »
For some time now something has been worrying me so I thought I would ask my friends, the Firenetters, whose advice I always respect and trust.

 I have a medical problem (hopefully not fatal, so I hope to be around for a long time yet to continue to leap over high buildings, while catching the speeding bullets fired by misguided fire officers in my teeth). Well, not trusting the national 'elf, I have been paying a fortune to a private medical consultant. He seems a nice chap and I do not grudge him the money since he is ekeing out an NHS pension (though I wish he would take the trouble to read the Lancet just occasionally).

Anyway, I was surfing the Net one night, and bored of soft porn, I stumbled across the Sickpeople.Net website. I read the posts with interest. It seemed to me that a number of private medical consultants would go on Sickpeople.net as soon as the private patient was out of the door of the consulting room and ask all and sundry for a diagnosis and proposed treatment, while charging patients for the advice. Some were even cheeky enough to simply begin their postings with the words "The Patient......." and then describe the patient's symptoms on the assumption that everyone would know they were supposed to do his job for him.

 Intrigued I scrolled through the postings and came to the following one:

"The Patient: Tall, slimming, good-natured, intelligent Scotsman, extremely good looking with a penchant for younger women........." Immediately of course I recognized myself, so I read on......

"The Symtoms:  The patient complains of severe anal discomfort when dealing with many of the officers of the greatest fire brigade in .......London, while claiming to experience a warm glow when dealing with many other shire county and met brigades, and all eight brigades in another nearby neighbouring country."

The consultant went on to say that he was completely baffled but he could not tell the patient this, as he was charging the patient (me) lots of dosh, so the last thing he would want to do was refer the patient to someone who knew the answer. Apparently, he had asked everyone down the pub for advice, and a bricklayer had suggested he carry out a colonoscopy, but he was too mean to buy the BS on colonoscopies, so was asking everyone on Sickpatient.net what the standard said and whether the warm glow the patient experienced was born of euphoria or was simply heartburn.

Lots of people seemed to be giving the consultant willingly of their time and advice, even though he was then charging me for it, as though it were his own. Some of the advice seemed to come from eminent surgeons (but in brain surgery, rather than below the waist problems), some came from retired medical researchers, who said they thought they remembered a case like this around the time of world war 2, and some very helpful advice came from retired ambulance drivers and first aiders. Some of the advice seemed sound enough (like tell the patient to have a strong talisker and kick the cat after each meeting with a fire officer), while others suggested all sorts of bizarre surgery.

See, the thing is, should I be worried that he appears to be taking advice from all and sundry, about whom he knows nothing, and should he be charging me for this advice, which he had always purported was his own????

I noticed that some postings had long dialogues, in which consultants discussed the private matters of their patients in great detail. I also wondered about that..........

Then I noticed that, as I travel a lot, I had put out  to tender a contract for advice on contraceptive arrangements in a number of UK countries. One consultant had told me that it would be very difficult and need a visit to some of the countries in question. However, I had decided to instead appoint a leading family planning organization to give me advice. (It was not the Family Planning Association, but to hide their real identity I am going to call them the the Family Planning Authority. They told me they could get the advice for me from their sister Family Planning Authorities in other countries, no problem. Imagine my outrage when I read on Sickpatient.net a posting from one of their consultants asking for help from all and sundry with ....... well I think you can guess. Turns out the guy had placed various postings on medical problems that the Authority were contracted to advise upon (without the knowledge of his management I suspect).

Well, worried about all of this I dug deeper into what Sickpatient.net was all about. It turns out it was the brianchild of a retired doctor, Simpson Collins, a real gem of a man, who had devoted a large chunk of his private time to making the site when he worked in the NHS to try to help medical people with information, etc. As the site grew, a benevolent consultant in private practice, full of amiration for Dr Collins, had paid out his own pocket for Dr Simpsons own server when the Doc's site became too big for the ISP.

In fairness, the site is still used by many NHS wallahs, some of whom need the help as they have never driven ambulances or been to RTCs, while some use the site as a form of anger management, venting their irritation with the private medical sector, all of which was within the vision of Dr Simpson (and his anonymous benefactor). However, it is also now apparently used a lot by private consutlants, who see patients and then, as I have said, ask everyone to make their diagnoses for them and virtually write the private prescription.

Of course, medics need to help each other to help the sick, but the advice I wanted was should I be concerned that this consultant I visit keeps telling all his pals in cyberspace about my medical problems in the hope that someone, the qualifications of whom he knows very little, might do his job so he can charge me lots of my hard earned and sparse earnings????????????????????????????????????????






 

Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline Thomas Brookes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 290
Re: USE OF INTERNET BULLETIN BOARDS BY CONSULTANTS
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2009, 06:53:15 AM »
That made me smile.


"Good job that doesent happen in our industry" tong firmly in cheek ;D
I refuse to have a battle of wittts with an unarmed person.

Offline Mr. P

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: USE OF INTERNET BULLETIN BOARDS BY CONSULTANTS
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2009, 08:20:11 AM »
That made me smile. "Good job that doesent happen in our industry" tong firmly in cheek ;D

Thomas, if you had used your fingers to put the sausage in your mouth, you could have bitten a piece off [sausage] and used your tongue instead instead of getting your tong's stuck in your cheek :P

Anyways, should be good for a bar b at the weekend.

I don't know why Colin, that you would want to kick Cat, I felt she had been quite entertaining and helpful around the bar?

Have a good W/E all.

Offline nearlythere

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4351
Re: USE OF INTERNET BULLETIN BOARDS BY CONSULTANTS
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2009, 08:24:27 AM »
I'm more interested in your medical problem CT. Have you tried a wire brush and domestos?
Perhaps this is the chance for a little diversification during those quiet moments  when people are having trouble finding this site.
Welcome to the forum's new on line Medical Assessment service - www.Quacks-R-Us.com.
Don't suffer in silence. Tell us your medical problems and, when we have stopped laughing, we will trawl the site for solutions to help get you on your back again.

Dear Doctor Nearlythere.
Every time I drink a cup of tea I get a pain in my right eye. What can I do? Hilda.

Dear Hilda.
Try taking the spoon out of the cup before you start drinking.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Davo

  • Guest
Re: USE OF INTERNET BULLETIN BOARDS BY CONSULTANTS
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2009, 09:14:23 AM »
CT

Perhaps the Doctor is only a GP like most of us.(Or in my case a student)
Specialist problems need specialists to diagnose and offer a solution.
If you have a problem with your hose reel then Anthony B is your man ::)

Anyways, you should be glad the doctor knew he was out of his depth and took advice!

Surely thats what this site is all about :D

davo

Offline kurnal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
    • http://www.peakland-fire-safety.co.uk
Re: USE OF INTERNET BULLETIN BOARDS BY CONSULTANTS
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2009, 10:16:55 AM »
Dear Doctor Nearlythere.
Every time I drink a cup of tea I get a pain in my right eye. What can I do? Hilda.

Dear Hilda.
Try taking the spoon out of the cup before you start drinking.


Davo would never have this problem as being a true yorkshireman he slurps his tea from his saucer.

As for CT well He feigns a love for his cats, then inflicts gastric torture upon them by feeding them dry food whilst he enjoys a diet of chocolate biscuits and talisker,  and now admits to giving them a good kicking every time a wise fire officer wont let him have a drive in the truck.

Just another thought- IMO this forum has gone into serious decline following last Octobers relaunch. I was initially attracted to it to replace the coffee table banter I used to enjoy whilst gainfully employed  whilst keeping in touch with technical and more importantly political issues in the fire service. But then I became struck just how helpful it was as a forum for the end users who were bewildered by technical and enforcement based issues. Sadly following the relaunch nobody who is not already a member can find the site and so we have become very stagnant and introspective.

I cannot offer Toddy much advice in respect of his medical problem as I have little knowledge of the condition- indeed as a result of my stature it is many years since I have been able to see my own trinket set so cannot compare notes.   
« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 10:30:38 AM by kurnal »

Offline nearlythere

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4351
Re: USE OF INTERNET BULLETIN BOARDS BY CONSULTANTS
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2009, 10:31:05 AM »
Dear Doctor Nearlythere.
Every time I drink a cup of tea I get a pain in my right eye. What can I do? Hilda.

Dear Hilda.
Try taking the spoon out of the cup before you start drinking.


Davo would never have this problem as being a true yorkshireman he slurps his tea from his saucer.

As for CT well He feigns a love for his cats, then inflicts gastric torture upon them by feeding them dry food whilst he enjoys a diet of chocolate biscuits and talisker,  and now admits to giving them a good kicking every time a wise fire officer wont let him have a drive in the truck.
Talisker in small amounts is one of my favourite tipples. It isn't for lager drinkers with tender taste buds as it is filtered through a bucket of turf to give it that mature peaty edge. The lack of chocolate in value pack chocolate biscuits can cause behavioural problems which can cause the sufferer to kick and flail. The cheaper the pack the more kicking and flailing.
Please clarify what he gives a good kicking K. The wise fire officer or the cats?
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline jokar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1472
Re: USE OF INTERNET BULLETIN BOARDS BY CONSULTANTS
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2009, 11:12:24 AM »
I agree with Kurnal with regard to this site and where it is going.  Thre seems to be a lot of banter between posters which spills over into many of the topics and detracts from the actual posts.  There also seems to be a lot of baiting occurrring which is fine in the actual banter thread but seems to be and is deeply uninteresting to posters when looking for specific answers to questions raised or for those looking for information.  I am happy to read and learn from the posters who offer advice and information and have learnt more than I knew from the information supplied by individuals with regard to specilaist information  Perhaps the site can be changed so that it is more accessibl to others and the numbers of poters grows.

messy

  • Guest
Re: USE OF INTERNET BULLETIN BOARDS BY CONSULTANTS
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2009, 11:21:20 AM »
Me thinks that there is a subliminal message in CT's post, as I am sure I recognise that doctor!

As for  your worrying complaint "The Symtoms:  The patient complains of severe anal discomfort when dealing with many of the officers of the greatest fire brigade in .......London, while claiming to experience a warm glow when dealing with many other shire county and met brigades, and all eight brigades in another nearby neighbouring country."

My advice is to prescribe taking regular doses of the M25, which will allow you to maintain contact with various shires when moving north or east from chez Todd, whilst avoiding all contact with the greatest city. (Be aware that caution should be exercised when consuming that part of the M25 near Heathrow T5 and near Enfield, as they are part of the 'great city').

Best wishes and get well soon

Midland Retty

  • Guest
Re: USE OF INTERNET BULLETIN BOARDS BY CONSULTANTS
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2009, 04:58:33 PM »
Yes...I recognise that Dr Simpson Colllins too - he starred alongside Messy Shaw in The Professionals didnt he?

Lord McTodd as a fully qualified "First Aider at Work" certificate holder I am able to perform minor heart surgery with little more than a credit card, and selloptape.Im also qualified to diagnose several ailments such as the little known "Scurrey disease"

It affects several Scottish men like yourself aged between 73 and 85 living in the Surrey area. It is thought to be contracted from Talisker infected with Cat pea.

It makes the affecting person prone to telling affectionate and whimsical tales of his motherland, and spouting ADB and vengeful sarcasm at others for no apparent reason.

One severe side effect is that the sufferer has the unparralled temptation to double de clutch a vast array of vehicles (mainly public vehicles) such as buses, police cars,milk floats, road sweepers and golf buggies etc,.

My advice Sir Col is to stop kicking the cat, and it will stop peeing in your tallisker.


« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 05:13:55 PM by Midland Retty »

Offline kurnal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
    • http://www.peakland-fire-safety.co.uk
Re: USE OF INTERNET BULLETIN BOARDS BY CONSULTANTS
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2009, 09:57:02 PM »
Now we have all had a bit of fun over Colins most ingenious and amusing posting it may be good to debate the issue as I am sure Colin intended. Personally I cant see a reat deal wrong with using the forum in this way as a sounding board and seeking the opinion of peers. Or as part of a contract, they may even be  required to seek comments from interested parties?

It is pretty clear that we have a huge range of expertise on here- some with a fantastic degree of specialist knowledge in a particular area, - and this is always apparent from their postings - and those who have a lot to learn.

Then we have the enforcers- and its always a good sounding board for their interpretation of something out of the ordinary- they often gives me a good indication of the best way to approach a particular issue when trying to sell an idea to their peers.

Personally I cannot see what is wrong with discussing someone's intimate painful fissure on the forum as long as I dont give any clue as to who the patient is. The fact that I am charging my clients is neither here or there. I come across something unusual and share my thoughts over it and invite other opinions it is giving the client the benefit of a more considered standpoint. Its give and take- I am often very grateful for the advice given and hope some of mine is useful to others. Whether I take any notice depends on who the poster is. Its very easy to assess the competence of others through the quality of their postings over a period. And where I am particularly grateful I will often send a personal message to pass on my thanks. And am always very pleased to receive them too.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 10:46:11 PM by kurnal »

messy

  • Guest
Re: USE OF INTERNET BULLETIN BOARDS BY CONSULTANTS
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2009, 11:39:23 PM »
As I have recently turned from gamekeeper to poacher and am now working independently, I have lost the ability to argue, debate and discuss FS issues with peers over a coffee. I know that many self-employed posters here also work in a somewhat similar remote environment  and do not have the advantages offered by working within a large team (eg: as in a fine capital city's FS Dept, or within a major fire consultancy's office).

It was for those reasons I began posting, and perhsp more importantly, reading/following the views of others here. As with all things internet, you cannot always believe what you read, but on those occasions when it's not so easy to see the wood for the trees,  a simple post on this website often attracts a high quality answer which enables you to have a different perspective of a specific situation. I have met two regular posters and would trust their judgement (almost) without question.

I see no problem with the concept of using a forum such as this as a tool in your FS toolbox, as long as it's not the only (or most significant) tool in there!

Offline Thomas Brookes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 290
Re: USE OF INTERNET BULLETIN BOARDS BY CONSULTANTS
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2009, 10:16:08 AM »
I have a lot of respect for Colin and have sat a course of his and read his books etc, however we all cannot be superhero's and I am sure along his way to being a god of fire protection he had advice from others, or had advice from collegues etc.
I use this forum  as a lot do on here, as a sounding board.

I think it is great on here to put out a problem and see what comes back, a lot of the time my original thoughts are the correct ones. But  sometimes if I list a problem someone will come back with a slightly different veiw or way of doing something which could be a better way of doing the same thing or a more cost effective way of doing it.

I feel and hope that I am fairly knowledgable with in the fields I work, However (and I think this is what sets some above others) is that if I am not sure of something I will always tell my clients that I am not sure but will find out the answer for them.
The day I start thinking I know everything and no longer need to keep learning and asking questions  is the time to retire, before you make a massive mistake.





I refuse to have a battle of wittts with an unarmed person.

Offline kurnal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
    • http://www.peakland-fire-safety.co.uk
Re: USE OF INTERNET BULLETIN BOARDS BY CONSULTANTS
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2009, 10:39:08 AM »
Bang on Thomas. Your posting reminds me of two of my favourite quotes from the Batman TV series.

Robin "gee Batman is there nothing that you dont know?
Batman "No Robin I dont know everything. There are actually four things I dont know"

Robin " Gee Batman you never make a mistake"
Batman "No Robin I did make a mistake once. For a moment I thought I was wrong- then found out I was right all along"
« Last Edit: April 04, 2009, 10:43:23 AM by kurnal »

Offline colin todd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3473
  • Civilianize enforcement -you know it makes sense.
    • http://www.cstodd.co.uk
Re: USE OF INTERNET BULLETIN BOARDS BY CONSULTANTS
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2009, 12:36:14 PM »
.......but what if the patient is not told that the consultant is going to, in effect, ask people down the pub for a diagnosis and is not simply double checking that his idea is right, cos he really has no ideas, but simply is incompetent to deal with the problem so throws it out to others to make his money for him, while then selling the ideas as his own. And what if, as I suggested, at tender stage it is alleged that the consultant has knowledge greater than others, wins the tender on that basis, and it then transpires the first thing he does is shout HELP can someone tell me the answer on Firenet, ooops I mean sickpeople.net of course, since as Tam says it would not happen in our profession.

That would be different from GP Davo simply trying to learn a bit about gastro-intestinal problems as part of his CPD would it not. And it would even be different from the angry old recently retired under-funded NHS GP who hates the private sector, but happily asks it for advice.  Or for that matter surgeons in cottage hospitals who cant read surgery manuals very well, so angrily ask the specialists who wrote the manual why the first cut is the deepest. Or the ambulance driver who is still only doing first aid and sometimes just needs to know if there are new band aids around.

I think even the most eminent medical specialist would gladly help all of the above albeit that they are often ungrateful and behave like the sick cats I was taught to fix when I studied vet medicine at the finest vet med school in the whole of Edinburgh as a youth. One never really minded that they scratched and hissed because they were loveable little souls who were not bright enought to work out that you were trying to help them and they couldnt hurt you anyway.

How many of us would go to someone who was a painter and decorator, but set himself up as a medical specilist without even training as a GP, but has access to an Internet bulletin board for his answers. How many with a serious illness would trust a long since retired GP, who openly admits that the latest guides on the subject matter of your illness are no longer available to him as they were when he was in the nhs and are too dear to buy, but, hey, he can ask people down the pub if they have a copy and could tell him what it says.

And as for CPD? Whew, way too expensive to go to seminars and conferences and where do they have time to read up on all the latest bumph, when they are out there selling their knowledge from the NHS 10 years ago. After all, how much can medicine have changed since they did their medical qualification at Marsh Gas on Sea 30 years ago???

I think one would wish to get a potentially fatal illness sorted out by someone who is prepared to spend a small fortune on keeping up to date and paying for access to all relevant guidance (and may take the view why should those costs help fund other medics who dont want to bother).  So, as Tam says, its just was well it cant happen in our profession, otherwise the safety of people to resort to buildings would not just be influenced by the fact that cutting fire stations would upset Matt the Wrack and the local press, and cutting CFS would be non-trendy, but cutting fire safety enforcement and the training of I/Os would never even be noticed (until it all goes wrong and then it would be fault of the RP anyway). It might paradoxically be influenced by well-meaning people supporting as best they can those who want to earn dosh from the knowledge of others.

Just a thought.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates