FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS > Community Fire Safety

Old lifts in residential block

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PGtips:
Hi all - I was wondering if anyone could point me to guidance re lifts in older purpose built residential blocks?
I have a block built in the 1960s - it has a lift installed at that time which runs from the basement with the usual hazards, electrics, residents storage etc to each compartment floor and opens (conveniently for residents) right outside their flat doors. Access to the single stair is via another 2 fire doors. Building is 8 floors in total including basement, one flat per floor. Lift motor room happily at the top.  Existing FRA for the building says install a fire alarm in the common parts, but I'm not sure this makes since, building is occupied by generally older residents as well so I don't fancy them trying their luck if an alarm goes off.  Someone else has suggested an alarm just for the basement area, with auto detection but only a local sounder (for persons in the basement, but linked through direct to Redcare or similar so as the basement is generally unoccupied, F&RS could attend if there were an issue without disturbing residents? Has anyone heard of this type of set up before?  All views welcome!

kurnal:
A common situation, always a difficult one to call, I guess the biggest risk is a fire in the basement sending smoke up the shaft in a stay put building. Fire prevention in the basement is the order of the day , but my opinion is that a decent minimum 1 hour enclosure at the base of the shaft (to include  smoke stopping properties which the existing lift doors will not provide) and the alarm system you describe is probably the ultimate solution, though some might say OTT. What is the standard of the existing doors to the shaft? Is there any fire separation between the basement accommodation and the base of the lift?

Phoenix:
I know it won't happen but they should ask for a refund from whoever did their previous FRA. Sounds like it completely missed the point.

What kurnal said.  They have to have fire separation between the risk area in the basement and the basement lift doors.  Should be at least one hour.

kurnal:
Agreed Phoenix but I have come across many situations like this in which the only fire separation is the lift shaft door, which only provides fire resistance from the landing side (compliant) and no smoke protection to the shaft. There is often a large basement area used for storage, car parking, plant rooms with louvre doors etc.  I have often speculated whether in the event of a fire in the basement the smoke would penetrate into the flat lobbies and if so at what level?

Phoenix:
I know they exist, and the fact that deaths and injuries have not historically been atttributed to this situation might tend to indicate that the perceived problems may be extremely unlikely to be realised.  The amount of smoke coming out from a closed lift landing door is bound to be restricted in quantity.  So maybe those more avant garde, and cheaper, alarm solutions suggested by others might be appropriate.

However, if smoke gets into the shaft then it will most likely spill out from the top level downwards.  Shafts do have vents in them for pressure equalisation but these could be inadequate for smoke removal, depending on the rate of smoke ingress.  Also, there is possible movement of the lift car that might affect smoke travel in the shaft and there is the possibility of people coming down to the basement via the lift when it is on fire.  On balance I would still recommend the fire separation at basement level.

A similar problem in some flats is the rubbish chute.  I have been to a few fires myself, a little while ago now, where upper floors have been smoke logged due to a fire in the bins at ground floor level.  I think this problem has mostly gone away now due to the normal protection measures given to these chutes.

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