Author Topic: 'Stay Put Policy' Question.  (Read 20381 times)

Offline david911cockburn@btintern

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'Stay Put Policy' Question.
« on: March 10, 2011, 08:55:06 AM »
Hi All,

How are you intending to warn somebody that they are coming home to a burning flat?

Offline CivvyFSO

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Re: 'Stay Put Policy' Question.
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2011, 09:21:06 AM »
Using basic fire engineering principles:

You leave your flat at time 'x' to go to the corner shop.
At time 'y' the chip pan busts in to flame.
There will be a set period where the fire stays at a constant size, but heats up the surroundings.
At time 'z' the surroundings burst into flame.
This fire then follows an exponential growth curve, with a factor built in to scale it down.
At a calculated point, the flames are hitting the ceiling, the temperature is approx 600 degrees and flashover occurs.
At this point your radial sounder circuitS explode.
This creates a huge amount of heat and we now have a fully involved fire.
At this point someone external to the building is likely to see the fire and ring 999.
Then the fire starts to run out of fuel and starts to decay.
At this point the fire service arrive.

So basically, if you see a big fire engine with lots of people in protective gear running around then there is a slim chance that your flat is on fire.


Offline nearlythere

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Re: 'Stay Put Policy' Question.
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2011, 10:50:34 AM »
Very complicated equation Civvy.
The flames come out the windows will be a dead give away.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline CivvyFSO

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Re: 'Stay Put Policy' Question.
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2011, 10:53:34 AM »
Yes, but lets not simplify it that much. It is not really the ethos of fire safety now is it? (Where is BLEVE nowadays anyway?)

Offline nearlythere

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Re: 'Stay Put Policy' Question.
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2011, 10:58:45 AM »
I believe he has gone to Deep Space Module 2984 by the Sea for an extended break. This is the year of the Mayan prophecy of absolute and utter doom for man and woman kind on this planet.
Should we read anything more into his absence?
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Northern Uproar

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Re: 'Stay Put Policy' Question.
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2011, 06:28:11 PM »
The approach to a flat entrance is protected by 60min FR - if you open the door and there's a fire, you turn your back on it and walk out - the door will be on a self closer and will shut behind you. Being able to turn your back on fire is one of the ideals of means of escape. the alarms are provided within an flat because there is usually one way out, which can be blocked if a fire is allowed to develop undetected, so smoke detectors are placed in the hallway.

Are you trying to flog pagers connected to a fire alarm system as well as time delayed smoke detectors? This scenario could happen to anyone in any building - if I was the first one in to the office I could be greeted by a fire, and there would be no warning if a manual system was provided. If you can find evidence of this being a life threatening problem, please share it with us.

If 'Little Junior' arrived home on his own, maybe a case of child abandonment, and social services may be better than a fire safety officer!

Offline nearlythere

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Re: 'Stay Put Policy' Question.
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2011, 11:19:58 PM »
So you provide nothing and if little junior gets home before a passer by notices the fire, little junior opens his front door to an inferno!
David. Are you not taking this a little too far? What about a burglar alarm so that little junior will not open the door to one engaged in his profession and doing nasty things to the little darling to shut him up?
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Graeme

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Re: 'Stay Put Policy' Question.
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2011, 12:06:46 PM »
Hi All,

How are you intending to warn somebody that they are coming home to a burning flat?

give them a wee call on the mobile and tell them not to rush home for their Pot noodle as it has been burned. Stay out for a another pint at least.

Graeme

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Re: 'Stay Put Policy' Question.
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2011, 12:08:00 PM »
No I don't believe that any right minded person would believe that I was taking this too far! 

not when your involved-no way ;D

Offline nearlythere

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Re: 'Stay Put Policy' Question.
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2011, 12:39:06 PM »
I must not be right minded then. Anyway, it has always been a principle that a fire alarm was only needed if necessary due to the layout and size of the building, the fire risk etc. and not as a means of demonstrating affluence.

 
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline mr angry

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Re: 'Stay Put Policy' Question.
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2011, 05:12:49 PM »
Isnt the purpose of a fire detection & alarm system to protect the escape routes and raise the alarm in order that occupants may make their escape (should they have to) and not for the purpose you mention David.

 If you were to approach your front door and the house was on fire I think even Stevie Wonder would be sus there was a problem without coming to any harm.

Graeme

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Re: 'Stay Put Policy' Question.
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2011, 08:18:10 PM »
Isnt the purpose of a fire detection & alarm system to protect the escape routes and raise the alarm in order that occupants may make their escape (should they have to) and not for the purpose you mention David.

 If you were to approach your front door and the house was on fire I think even Stevie Wonder would be sus there was a problem without coming to any harm.


maybe not during a hot summers day and he did not hear all the screams and sirens because he was plugged into his i-pod playing Metallica at full blast...

maybe we could develop an app for the I-phone to notify of all domestic fires into a sat nav type software that notifies any person within that postcode to beware of a fire in their establishment...

i could be rich

Offline colin todd

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Re: 'Stay Put Policy' Question.
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2011, 08:37:03 PM »
Civvy, your fire engineering is entirely flawed.  When I leave home to go to the corner shop, that shop IS in fact the chippie.  (Dave's fish and chips of heath end farnham, I can recommend them.) So how can I leave my chip pan on?  He wraps them up in pages of some book about bonding.  My daughters and I have done a lot of that since my divorce. (My son had already bonded as he works for me but we are not equipotential, cos I am the boss so we cant be equi, and his potential will be measured by his performance in the IFE grads this week.)

 I am just back from Mr and Mrs Patel's corner shop.  I bought 10 lottery tickets, one for my girlfriend, one for my son, one for each of my two daughters and 8 for me.  I thought that was fair, because I am 13 times more important than them.  I rang each of them to find out what numbers they wanted.  They all gave me some, apart from the middle girl, who could not be bothered to think of any-numbers hurt her head- and asked for a lucky dip.  Anyhow, I bought a jar of peanut butter for her and me, and we are just tucking into it. Getting the spoon through it is like wading through treacle, so it reminded me that I must see what drivel is being posted on Firenet, and, of course, I wasnt disappointed.  I have known Mr and Mrs P since the kids were young, and I love them to bits.  Mrs Patel helped me by choosing some numbers for me.  She gave my gf a lovely recipe for a ruby murray once, and it was one of the best I have ever had.

Anyhow, how is your life going.  I know all aboutthe  heating up of surroundings you describe..  Most mornings, my daughter comes in to use the bathroom in my bedroom, especially if her bf is using the main bathroom, and she always says "Dad, you have got this room like an oven" but-hey the cats like it. They are Burmese, so are used to heat.  If you tell me how to insert images I can show you a pic of them.

There is a radial path from my house to my good friend Nigel , who lives in the same private lane.  He had a chimney fire once, and I heroically led the fire brigade up the lane. He didnt stay put in his bath for long when his wife told him the chimney was on fire I can tell you.

I am sure I was sane and that the voices in my head have always been telling me the right things to do, but I think I have read so much of the recent postings that I have cracked, lost it. There is a care home at the end of our road, but a CSky report on it said that when the inspectors came on a night shift not enough staff spoke good enough english to answer their questions, but hey, in my state, it wont matter , as I wont know if they are talking sense or not. I may need to win the lottery to afford the bill so I hope the voices told me the right numbers or that they passed them onto Mrs Patel.

While I wait for them to come with a van and collect me, I am going to use the electro magnetic resonance transporter to beam me to the study to write another section of the new flats guide (this section on risk assessment). I may be some time. Dont wait up for me.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline kurnal

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Re: 'Stay Put Policy' Question.
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2011, 10:29:06 PM »
Moral of the story dont buy cheap peanut butter. Its made from rancid peanuts and sends you potty. And you can stop taking the insanity pills now Colin. They've worked.

Offline CivvyFSO

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Re: 'Stay Put Policy' Question.
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2011, 03:09:11 PM »
Civvy, your fire engineering is entirely flawed.

Todd, have you been on the Clevelandfire Sleeping Juice? It is nice to see that your brain has finally given up the ghost, it was only a matter of time.

Quote
There is a radial path

Surely you mean path(s)?????? I will await Mr Cockburn's most excellent opinion on this one.