FireNet Community
FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: birty on February 17, 2004, 11:46:06 AM
-
Anyone got any ideas about which areas to study for the 2004 exam? They aint gonna ask about Fire services act are they-surely not!!!!
-
Oops -perhaps should have said that it was the Grads exam!!
-
Perhaps, one ought to study the course syllabus with a view to knowing it. then it won't matter what they ask.
-
Perhaps, one ought to study the course syllabus with a view to knowing it. then it won't matter what they ask.
-
:shock: "chance favours the prepared"
-
I am one of the examiners not in the fire safety group though, but what colin said is the best bet, also look at past papers and finally all the ife magazines often contain articles where the questions are formed from.
-
IFE exams have improved massively over the years, and are of a good standard nowadays. Anyone doing them really needs to know the relevant material. If you don't take them seriously, you will not pass-simple as that. I think they still get people who try to bluff their way through on the basis of their practical knowledge, rather than serious study.
-
The syllabus of fire safety on membership exam is large. Actually, what I should read to prepare the exam? (such as BS5588-8, Book 8, Book 9) Is there any suggestion?
-
The secret is not only to cover the whole of the syllabus for the relevant exam but always remeber to cover the syllabuses of the 'lesser' exams a well as the IFE syllabuses follow on from each other and each one takes into account the one before1 The other great secret is to start to study well in advance and I would recommend at least a year to cover all the subjects in the syllabus (but then who am I? I only wrote the things!!) but seriously, keep taking the exams and supporting as there is an upwelling of one or two individuals within the inner reaches of the IFE (General assembly and the Board of Directors and believe it or not are voted on these bodies by the membership) who wish to do away with the examination system of the IFE. There is also a move afoot to remove the Grade of Graduate memberbecause one or two people in the assembly/board of directors feels that it could be confused with academia outside of the IFE!!! Well I for one will oppose this tooth and nail - anyone in the IFE or who has anything to do with it knows exactly where an IFE Graduate member sits in the scheme of things, and when I was a Graduate of the IFE I was proud to wear that badge and I am sure all other Graduates of the IFE are proud to wear it as well so dont be fooled by a few people who say they believe such a move is for the best or to de-confuse others, remember I sat all through the Engineering Council meetings so that the IFE could be an engineering organisation and not once did the Engineering Council ask the IFE to remove the grade of Graduate or re-structure it in any way. Sorry about the rant but I do feel both the exams and the current grades are so important and our birthright should not be lost on the whim of one or two individuals becuse they want to appear or the IFE to appear trendy - phew!!
BOB
-
A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME. Robert, I do believe that you are becoming jaundiced in your old age! I would agree that there is a valid place for the grade that we now call graduate. I also believe that retention of an exam that is currently of the Grauate level is warranted (provided people can be persuaded to take it). Its just the name that is unfortunate. In common parlance, other negineering institutions, and even the ecd division of the IFE itself, a graduate is someone with a degree. The grad is more akin to an A level or BTech. It is therefore somewhat misleading to use the name graduate. Its only a name. I think your comments on some of the up and coming members of the Board, who are less concerned with the wearing of formal dress at the President's dinner and more concerned with taking the IFE into the 21st century as a proper engineering institution, are somewhat harsh.
-
If an IFE Grad is akin A level or BTech, what is an IFE Member akin to?
-
This is purely a personal opinion, and should not be regarded as an IFE view or that of the Engineering Council. However, I always think the Membership is about 1st year university level.
-
if the members is year one and i passed some (erm cough, cough) years ago i might be equivalent to a fire consultant now colin? though i suppose that as i have moved away from the dark side and continued my studies in more enlightened areas i'm perhaps more equivalent to something else (i'll let you decide what label to use LOL)
bob, perhaps the jaundice thing has something to do with the scottish air?
anyway for what its worth, on a personal basis i support the continuing education of anyone who chooses to do so by whichever process it occurs, and that includes the ife, but these things arent and shouldnt be given away they have to be earned, so i think the advice given re studying by the most venerable gentlemen above is good solid and extremely valid, but then again im only one of those who was constantly encouraged by old 'george a' himself (and bob and mike bitcon) to contribute to the process, so would say that!!
dave bev
-
Colin, It seems that you are highlighting the difference between a 'Member' and a 'Chartered Member'. If a member is a first year at Uni, a chartered member has graduated and gained a few years experience in the industry. In other engineering institutions, the member grade is largely reserved for those who are chartered engineers, and below that are 'Associate Members'. Do the IFE give away member status too easily?
-
I have the IFE Preliminary & Intermediate certificate’s and am applying for the Technician grade; be honest what levels are these akin too?
-
Wait, wait , wait, one at a time please! Davey, commies can't be fire consultants, except in old guard commie countries, which means you would need to practise in either Albania (bit spartan), North Korea ( dont even think about it) or Cuba ( nice birds and good cigars, good weather, so you could think about it, also you can send new pics of Che Guevarra back to your leader). But we would miss you if you went, so stick to the FBU, good old Uncle John P, who I am sure you have forgiven for giving you a kicking, and the English weather. Peter, no the IFE do not give away membership too easily. It is a broadly based organisation that brings together all part of the fire community, and some other institutions do have non- C Eng members actually. The rank and file (mostly fire brigade) members did a brave thing when they allowed the Engineering Council Division to be formed. There are 10,000-11,000 members worldwide (with lower case m), and about 300-400 in the ECD. I think it would be hardly appropriate to downgrade or disenfranchise the people who have worked hard to get the Grad or Members by examination, simply because they did not have the chance to go to university. And incidentally, I would respectfully suggest that you or I as chartered engineers with degrees could not walk in off the street and, without a great deal of study, pass the membership examination. (Trust me, I know someone who tried.) If you want to dispute this I will send you a membership exam in the post and Bob Docherty will mark it for you, as soon as he dismounts from his high horse. To the chap doing the preliminary, etc, do not worry so much about equivalences. All study is worthwhile and is simply a means for progressing education to the level that you, ultimately, wish to attain. I wish you best of luck in doing so.
-
Hey Colin, who mentioned formal dress?? where did that one come from??lets go into the 21 century with the IFE, I am all for that and as a member of the IFE I am entitled to a view and also to express it, thats what is called democracy, which I personally believe is lacking at the moment within the IFE structure. I have no reason to be jaundiced, I just believe in some things, nothing personal to those involved ( I didn't mention any names did I?) and they are well aware of my views I can assure you of that. Back to the subject, the examinations and their grades are important, especially in an international organisation and we are there to serve not just good old UK but the rest of the world, so while we are looking all glum and confused over 'a rose by any other name' my person in Malawi may just think a little bit differently about it
Cheers
BOB
-
As you know Bob, I am a great supporter of the IFE, and serve the Institution in a number of capacities, but sadly there are still a number of yesterday's men around, who cling to the notion of the Institution being their own private club. The dress question was merely a personal thing. I gave a presentation at the AGM a few years ago. At the end of the long hot day with delegates all wanting to go off for a pint there was a request to the body of the hall for any other business. An ex-president of the Institution just HAD to say, to everyone's dismay that he had some AOB. And what was his AOB? Mr International President, quoth he, I would just like to say how appalling it is that people can wear lounge suits at your dinner tonight. Mr International President, I think that the lack of a requirement to wear dinner jackets is a personal insult to you. I turned to a friend sitting next to me and vowed never again to attend an IFE AGM as a matter of principle, while old fogeys like that are still alive. And I never have.
-
Does anyone know where past IFE papers can be obtained (Membership level of interest to me in particular) other than available on the IFE website which is more a critique on last years candidates.
Regards
-
Thank you Colin, I feel suitably despondent about my efforts and achievements in the past. I’ll go off with my 11 + exam (Preliminary & Intermediate) passes forget about applying for the Technician Certificate.
I never thought I was an academic genius and now you’ve poured scorn on everything I was aiming for. If you could tell me what you do approve of, when I have recovered from this let down, I may sign up for it?
-
Peter, Are we both reading the same bulletin board? If so, could you cut and paste the text from this thread in which I poured scorn on IFE exams?
Could I respectfully suggest you read what was said, which is that all education and progression by examination is worthy of effort, and represents achievement. If you mistakenly thought that the prelim and intermediate were PhD level, I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the fact that they are not equivalent to degree level does not make them less worthwhile. Learning is a lifelong process. Every one of the IFE exams is a step on the ladder of learning, which I am disappointed to learn that you feel is not worthwhile, given the time and effort put in by those members of the Institution involved in the exams and their marking.
-
Its Paul not Peter, maybe you should read it again!
-
Peter, Paul, Mary, whats the odds.
-
Isn’t that ironic you calling me Mary; I got the impression you think you’re the Son of God. So don’t call me Mary, you can call me Mummy!
-
Just make sure you get your name right on the IFE exam paper.
-
I will dear, Mummy always wants to please! Maybe we should have a page, called “Colin and Mummy”? What do you think? We could talk about you all day, and how wonderful you are my little love?
By the way, Daddy said stop parting the Red Sea, it play’s being confused with Global Warming.
(All the stuff I said above is purely my own personal view and in no way represents any official view of my employer!)
-
Colin is it hard to do your job, when persons are trying to kiss your feet and throw sick relatives at you? As you bend down to touch someone’s forehead, are those directly behind you, bathed in a warm beam of light? Is it be very difficult/painful to walk down narrow corridors, scraping your ears as you move along?
If you give it, you have to take it; but despite the Watch’s request, I’ll be signing off on this now for good. I will savour the memory of our little chats, with the print off’s on our notice board.
Bye
(All the stuff I said above is purely my own personal view and in no way represents any official view of my employer!)
-
Typical water squirter!
-
Does this mean that no-one here is really interested in career/knowledge progression.
I for one, as a fire and safety professional, am keen to further my knowledge by what ever means possible. As part of this exercise I am taking membership grade IFE examinations this year (hence the request re: past exam papers).
Perhaps some people just enjoy casting derision on the IFE and the way in which it grades members etc. for reasons which totally escape me.
The whole argumentative attitude of some is the precise reason why fire consultants are viewed largely as an unorganised, unregulated collection of fire service wannabees or has beens. Surely it would be far more productive to promote all methods of advancement in our chosen careers rather than 'rifting'.
Just to be clear - I have never been employed by a fire service, private or otherwise. I have, however some 20years experience in the fire and safety industry from installation through strategy implementation.
Am I the only one out here who is proud of what I do? or do we have a general problem with the lack of cohesion between those in our profession?
-
Cohesion in the profession is the aim and objective of the IFE, and it is the only organisation within our field that can/does do so. Those who are anti-IFE are either living in the past when, a long time ago now, the Institution did not so readily embrace all aspects of the profession, or are talking from outside the Institution with no real knowledge of the Institution.
-
Colin,
do you know of any sources for past papers at membership grade?
Only just over a week to go and I would really appreciate the opportunity to tackle a set of relevant papers (the last serious examination I sat was - well, too long ago!).
Any assistance would be greatfully appreciated.
-
Pete, The IFE journal publishes a review of the exams and the examiners views on how people did, what they did wrong, etc. I might have some copies of the reviews that I could copy and fax to you if you want. You could also talk to IFE HQ to see if they could help. Anyhow, best of luck. Put a wee note up to tell us how it went!
-
I have a number of the reviews you mention but only for certain papers. For your info I am taking the three compulsary papers and the Petrochem paper next week (employers insistance that I attempt all at once). Any others you may have (except 2003 obviously) I would be extremely grateful to receive copies of.
Will drop a note re: resultsa as soon as I know; hoping to pass two out of four this time round (Only got notice that I was to sit them in November last year - but thats life!) - any more would be a bonus.
Got to admit I'm starting to get a little nervy about it all, as I said I don't (or won't) remember the last serious examinations I took.
Anyway - thanks for the words.
-
Oops, hope this does not sound patronising, but, since you have not done exams for a long time, can I offer a word on exam technique. I know that a common complaint of the IFE examiners is that candidates do not give the answer to the question asked. Sounds an obvious point I know, but I find exactly the same problem when I mark one module of the FPA FSM Diploma course, and also mark a couple of exams we set on the courses we do on fire risk assessment and fire safety induction for new recruits in building control and fire safety in the fire service. I think there are two reasons people do this. One is that in the pressure of the moment people dive off and answer the question before they have fully digested it. The solution to that is to read the question once for sense, a second time to underline the key points and maybe bullet point some notes and a third time to see that your proposed answer does exactly address the question asked. The other reason people do it is because they dont know the answer to the question and so they give information on something slightly at a tangent in the forlorn hope that the examiner will not notice the irrelevance. Its a waste of time, because people then get no marks for long chunks of stuff. Better to spend the time polishing the answer to a better question. For example, a question might ask about the levels of protection defined in the BS on fire detection and instead people will give an answer all about the principles of operation of different detector types. Hope these thoughts help.
-
All comments readily received. I understand fully what you say about giving wrong answers etc. - this is exactly the type of advice I need.
Thanks.
-
Ill see what we can find in the office and revert.
-
Cheers - much obliged.
-
Pete, I assume that you know that the 2003 papers can be accessed via www.ife.org.uk/exams/exams.html and then click on 2003 examiner's report (which is worth reading anyway). I have laid my hands on the 2002 papers, but there was no petrochem exam in 2002. If you want the others faxed to you, let me know the recipient name, company and fax number that it is to go to, and we can send them to you.
-
Colin, I have emailed the details to you - thanks.
-
Pete, I have checked with my PA and she has received no email from you. I have horrible feeling that the email from Firenet was blocked at her machine. If it was we have fixed it, as I just sent a test message and it got there ok. Could you please send again or use Private messaging here.
-
Pete, The girls in the office have received your private message and are faxing the stuff to you.
-
Already sent one back saying thanks, but hey, thanks again. My fax machine is churning as I type.
-
By the way, don't ask me what the answers are!
-
We should rename this forum 'the Pete M and Colin T mutual admiration society'.
Have you guys not got private email addresses to spare the rest of us all these messages?
-
Mr G, Could you not have sent us that message by email to save the rest of the people reading your complaint.
-
Well, sat the exams over the last two days - hope I never have to do that again.
Did anyone else notice an anomoly between the Membership paper 2 - 'fire safety' and the contents of the syllabus as available on the IFE site?
-
I have just sat the membership fire safety (paper 2) today at Ipswich fire station, question 1 was a corker, asking about fire safety measures re; hurricanes, cylcones and tornado's.
Guess what?I did not do question 1!!!!
Apart from that is was pretty much what I expected.
Regards
Gary
-
I must have read the wrong syllabus then - the one I have is predominantly concerned with fire detection, alarms, systems, extinguishing systems, means of escape etc..
The exam appeared to concentrate on building and construction safety.
-
Hi Guys just enjoy the exams, never mind the syllabus, fairly soon you might be saying I took the IFe exams once when they existed!! Good luck anyway to all who took them at whatever level, I still think they represent good value and fire engineering currency throughout the world and long may they do that in whatever form they evolve to
Cheers
BOB
PS hey Colin I remember the guy who said that about evening dress - he vowed he never would attend the IFE AGM again either!! polarisation is the word!!
-
Bob, If he had only told ME he would never go again, I would have gone subsequently!!!!
-
Well, got the results back and 3 out of 4 is better than I expected - fluffed the Human Resource Management - Ah well, next year perhaps.
-
Bad luck but look at it this way many people think that HR stands for hand relief on account of the type of people who often follow HR as a profession.