Portable Fire Extinguishers in Plant, HV & LV Switch Rooms

[boro]

At present either a 2kg CO2 or D/Powder extinguishers or sometimes both are provided/installed in plant rooms and HV & LV switch rooms, the majority of which the to gain entry are from within the building. As you can appreciate we also have portable FFE at set fire points, the majority of which are on circulation routes throughout the building which normally consist of a 2kg Co2 & either a 6lt Foam or Water extinguisher. The annual service is due and before this commences I have been asked to review the amount of FFE currently on site. I am lead to believe the Fire & Rescue Service won't actually use the portable equipment and only recommend trained personal are advised to use portable FFE I am of the opinion that there may be possibly an over provision of FFE in a number of our internal Plant and HV & LV Switch rooms, especially when there are fire point close by (within 30m). I do however remain toagree that stand alone or external access only Plant and HV & LV Switch rooms should be provided with the appropriate FFE. Your comments & views would be greatly appreciated.

[jasper]

from previous experience 5kg co2 generally used

[Phoenix]

boro,

You don't say if there are individuals present who have been trained in the use of extinguishers.  Personally, I feel that extinguishers are pretty idiot proof but, certainly, CO₂ ones do have some idiosyncrasies that the users should be made aware of.

The FRS personnel are indeed unlikely to use the FFE in the room as the chances are that the door will be shut when they arrive and the FFE will be inside the door!  Also, they're not, ideally, meant to use equipment other than their own (is it safe? will it work correctly? and similar doubts) - though it does happen (or used to, at least).  They probably carry a CO₂ extinguisher themselves any way.

What voltage is the HV stuff?  Dry powder should not be used if you have anywhere near 1,000V as, at this level of potential difference, current can flow up the discharging powder stream.

Overall, I think you're right that you may have some redundancy in your extinguisher provision.  The ones in these plant rooms will only ever be used by someone who is present at ignition as they simply will not be accessible at any later time.  But then all extinguishers are designed only to deal with fires at or soon after ignition.  Generally, if there are CO₂ extinguishers very close by anyway and they are of sufficient capacity then why duplicate them for the sake of a few seconds travel time?

Those are my thoughts irrespective of what any standard recommends.

Stu

[kurnal]

I would tend to agree with you Boro, but just consider how you manage engineers and contractors who may visit and work in the plant rooms. Do your work permit systems cover hot work and provision of suitable FFE for hot work? Does the Contractor provide the FFE or do they use that provided by you?

If you leave it to the contractor you can bet that they will come to site with a wacking great DP extinguisher which has had a hard life and without any consideration of the consequential damage to your business that a discharge may cause.

Found this going on in a large automated food distribution centre recently where, if the contractors had discharged the powder the damage and disruption would have been immense. 

[boro]

Gents thanks for your thoughts and comments,

Stu sorry my post was breif and lacked clarity, we only tend to train maintenance personal, fire marshals & technicians’ to use portable fire extinguisher, the remainder of our staff  3000+ are instructed on the decovery of a fire, to just to raise the alarm close doors & windows (if safe to do so) and exit the building.
Regards the D/powder Ext thay are only sited in plant rooms, the HV & LV are only provided with C02 Ext also forgot to mention most of the HV room also have the provision of a C02 flooding systems   

Kurnal good comment regards contractors providing own kit, its somthing i will recommend is written into the permits regards the standard of FFE.

[AnthonyB]

The 30 metre rule is primarily for 'general risks' such as Class A fires. Other risks are considered 'special risks' and should be sited in the risk area, or if the risk area is very small, immediately outside.

This is because the special risks (B,C,D,F) etc are also more dangerous & every second after ignition counts.

If you have a switch room/motor room off a circulation corridor and a general circulation area fire point is right outside, then it is not unreasonable to omit the duplicate just a metre away through the door, as long as the general fire point has the right kit (no good if it has a 2kg cO2 and the special risk needs a 5kg).

Real example - surveyed a building that had a water & CO2 in the lift landing to each floor. Off that was a cupboard the size of a phone box with switchgear/fuse boards and had a CO2 installed. I pointed out to the client that although the area was special risk, it was too small to have an extinguisher safely inside and should be just outside the door, yet lo and behold there already was a CO2 just across the landing on the general fire point. Cue removal of a lot of extinguishers and previous assessor (not one of ours) grumbled about even more than already by the client.

However if your fire point is at the wrong end of a corridor, it won't work. If you can move a general circulation fire point nearer the switch room them that's great.

I standardise on CO2 across both motor/switch rooms and plant rooms as the argument for powder is flawed - yes there may be a Class C risk in a plant room, but it should not be extinguished other than by shutting off the gas supply - C-rated extinguishers are for specially trained fire teams as part of an attack to secure valves, often in conjunction with a hose reel or branch providing a water curtain to shield the approach. So if you have some plant rooms with Powder & CO2 you can dump the powder.

It is possible that you can reduce your numbers, but without surveying the site I can't be too specific as not all sites are the same.