DFS transfer to LAFS

[RLFACTOR]

IPDS. The Fire Service College will play a leading role in introducing this new system. It includes all aspects of a fire fighter's activities from initial recruitment, selection, training, in-service development and progression through to retirement. The principles of IPDS apply to all members of the fire and rescue service, including control room staff, non-uniformed staff, retained and part-time personnel. IPDS will provide common standards across the service and will enable staff to demonstrate their competence in their role through workplace assessment. IPDS is the cornerstone of the Government's reform of the human resource management of the fire and rescue service. Together with the introduction of IPDS, we intend to:

replace the 12 ranks of the fire and rescue service with seven 'roles', which reflect the work that fire fighters actually do;

introduce multi-level entry, so that people can enter the fire and rescue service at a level appropriate to their qualifications and experience, including the most senior levels;


 odpm...


The principles of IPDS apply to all members of the fire and rescue service, including control room staff, non-uniformed staff, retained and part-time personnel.    

 AS THIS STATEMENT SAYS; APPLIES TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE FIRE AND RESCUE SERVICE.


 IPDS is the cornerstone of the Government's reform of the human resource management of the fire and rescue service.

 ALL FIRE AND RESCUE SERVICES ARE HEADED BY THE HOME OFFICE AND THEREFORE THE GOVERMENT.

multi-level entry, so that people can enter the fire and rescue service at a level appropriate to their qualifications and experience


 IF YOU MEET THE REQUIREMENTS THROUGH YOUR QUALIFICATIONS AND EXPERIENCE YOU ARE ABLE TO BE EMPLOYED.



 My point in laymans terms is; that all fire and rescue services conform to the FIRE AND RESCUE SERVICES ACT 2004 and therefore conform to what is stated by the odpm. So this segregation that you keep mentioning Lee999 In my opinion makes no sense.

 Also you mentioned that brigades are lowering the standards. Well if that was true that would mean that all new recruits to your brigade would have entered to service at a lower standard! "But do you have the same hostility to new recruits as you do MOD Fire Fighters. "

 Last point, as stated by the odpm;People enter the fire service at a level appropriate to their qualifications etc... Does this not mean that if you make the grade and can prove your initial training and ongoing training, and therfore meet the required standard YOU ARE ELIGABLE!

 I dont think this is a case of lowered standards Lee999!  I think that you may feel bitter because you had to go through alot of hassle to get in to your brigade, and in todays MODERN fire service where Qualifications are recognised, people who are COMPETANT are transfering into your Brigade, and maybe you dont think its fair!!!

 Isnt it time to enter the 21st century lee999 and leave all that discrimination behind!!!

[Lee999]

RLFACTOR, I do not support any form of discrimination in any workplace.

I wont start to repeat what I have already said, my stall is set out and you are free to agree or disagree. I respect your opinions.

I have not met on W/T ops FF in the Brigade who agree's with what you have said, but hey..........

Norman, I also respect your views,and have no reason to want to offend. I didn't join the job for financial gain, and I am not really interested in MOD men earning 3 times my wage. Im in the job cos I Love everything about it, and I am Happy and proud to be doing what im doing. You can keep your money.

I disagree with almost everything you have said about the MOD fire service, and as an ex-member of MOD FRS and RAF FRS i think that i am entittled to that opinion. It is an informed one, sorry if you dont like it.

As someone great once said

"if you dont want to hear other peoples opinions, dont join a forum"

Shall we leave it at that?

[Cut Fire Service Pay]

Well my last post on this matter is, good luck to anyone joining any FRS MOD/Industrial/Airport/Contractor or LAFB. Having good friends in all of these services & being retained as well as DFS I have not met one that has an opinion like yours Lee999 but like you say its a forum!

The best thing I ever did was get out of LAFS. I have given myself another month working retained and that will be it I reckon. Im fed up with all of the politics & jibberish that comes from 'up top'and stops you doing the job you are there for and for me the removal of beds and the portrayal of Ffs as Lazy was the last straw. Change
 is good and can be very effective but I have yet to see any changes in LAFS that have been worth it! IPDS has been a total let down with the same double standards between WT & Retained. Most stations are still run by the FBU and their out of date policys and methods although I don't condem the FBU itself just a minority.

The way this government is going you'll be lucky to have any WT Ffs soon!

[Pete]

Could anyone please tell me what LAFS are taking on DF&RS in the east of the Country From a MOD & Retained ff. As I can't get hold of this information.

[bignorman]

Could anyone please tell me what LAFS are taking on DF&RS in the east of the Country From a MOD & Retained ff. As I can't get hold of this information.

I dont know of any FRS in the east of the country that are accepting transfers from DFRS, but if you want information on how to start the ball rolling feel free to email me..

[cbfire999]

Having just read these posts, I have to admit there are some very interesting points to note.  Lee999, it has to be said, you have obviously met some unsavioury DFS chaps in the past, however I do believe your background in both DFS and RAF qualifies you this opinion.  Having served 18 years in the RAF myself, I have to make objection to a couple of points regarding CTE Manston and the training that they provide.  Whilst I agree, Moreton is a great facility, the school at Manston is also very good and the instructors are well trained.  In fact they attend training courses run by the LAFS regularly on a number of subjects.  So I believe your statement to be slightly flawed.

I to have a number of friends that have joined the LAFS across the country, some have transferred and some have had to go through the selection process.  Do I believe the DFS should be able transfer?  In a word, no!  Likewise, I don't believe the LAFS should be able to transfer directly to the DFS!  Why not?  Because although both jobs are similar, they are by no means the same.  That said I do not believe that transfers either way should incur the need to have to complete the full training course.  It has been known for ex RAF/DFS to complete 2 week "refresher" courses to get into the LAFS!  Surely any quality instructor would have a very good idea of competance after this time?  Lee999, your views are welcomed.

Whilst we are comparing the 3 services, LAFS/DFS/RAF.  All 3 will have, dare I say it, "problems".  Of the friends that I have who have joined the Local Brigades, all ex RAF, all have stated that apart from the busier shifts (albeit, that is not always the case), overall the professionalism is not a patch on the RAF and the lack of training has been quite shocking!

Furthermore, whilst I appreciate that there are alot of the DFS that are happy to take their double and treble pay for public holidays and good amounts of overtime for very little return there are a lot of very good profesional fire fighters amonst them.

To conclude, we all have a choice in life and choose the jobs that we take on.  We are not all LAFS whannabees, far from it.  I for the record have no desire to transfer even if it were made easier.

[Lee999]

cb

I will comment, bit im concerned we might begin to go round in circles with this topic.

Again, Ive said what I said in earlier posts and stand by my (informed) views, Looking back I might of been more diplomatic and humble.

The RAF FRS and the MOD FRS in my experience are 2 quite different animals, or they were when i passed through. And the LAFB is another different animal again....

With regards to MOD CTE, very good training venue for Firefighters. However, when I was required to attend, the quality of the instructional staff fell well short of what I see as the required standard. This is for a variety of reasons. Mainly due to the lack of any real experience.

Your freinds experience of training and development whilst in the RAF compared to LAFB is not the same as mine, in fact quite the opposite. Although i suppose Brigades and Watches differ.

Your 2 week refresher idea is one ive heard before. Yes, following a TNA the Service would be able to evaluate competancies and identify training needs. But my point is really what goes on before that. Is this potential trainee being considered on their own merit (along with all other potential recruits), or are they being considered because they have had some formal Fire Service training elsewhere, and therefore will be cheaper to take on! That is my concern.

Im committed to excellence in the FRS, not shortcuts to save money.

As for transfers the other way, then the same should probabaly be true although, not being a member of that Service I shouldn't really comment. I would say that this would be a fairly rare event. Most people join to go out on Fire calls, dont they?

[DAVID HARBINSON]

Hi there everyone was browsing the net when i came across this website and i read with interest some of the comments regarding transfers from the df&rs to the laf&rs.  I am a serving member of the df&rs in Northern Ireland, and we are the only station in the province so you can imagine trying to get acknowledgement for your qualifications over here is virtually impossible.  I am also a retained ff with the Northern Ireland f&rs, and being the only brigade over here they recognize only la qualifications, and if the truth be told i and many others in my station find that highly annoying.  I didn't come on to this forum to trade insults but i do feel that a certain individual has a real chip on his shoulder about the df&rs and to be fair that is something that not only goes on between df&rs and laf&rs but it also goes on between the retained and the wholetime in (Northern Ireland anyway).  Should there be cross transfers both ways? In my opinion yes.  All services train their ff to a high standard and having been trained at manston (df&rs) and boucher (nif&rs) i can say that the instructors at both schools were excellent although to be fair the facilities at manston where of a higher standard.  How anyone can say that the standards are being dropped by allowing transfers is beyond me, surely a serving ff in which ever service has more to offer than a recruit just of the street and through a basic course?  I enjoy my position with both services and wouldn't change a thing.  I think it is high time we excepted that we're all ff which ever service we are in beit wholetime or retained and we're there to serve and protect our communities beit mod or local.  To finish things of and this goes to my df&rs colleague's don't keep going on about the money that gets every one's back up, although it does keep the bank manager happy.

[ospreyjack]

I know, it seems rubbish. I had to go through all of  this also. I thought IPDS was supposedto rectify the problem but apparently not. Al I can say is that at least now there is aframework to follow. Gather your evidence and get it signed off in accordance with NOS's and keep trying. Good luck!