Aids to assist evacuation of a care home

[Midland Retty]

It seams daft to me that we need lots of staff in every care home just to deal with the occasional fire.

Perhaps a more logical approach would be to have a local service that has specialist equipment and training to help evacuate/rescue people. We could give them big red lorries and blue flashing lights.

thoughts?

Bloomin' heck thats brilliant Wee Brian....what would we call this local service you speak of?

[BHCC]

What a great idea!!!

Maybe they could do the FRAs as well?

[nearlythere]

Just to go off on a tangent a little it should be remembered that a Fire & Rescue Service has a duty to offer a fire and rescue service to the community and not to an individual.

[kurnal]

Wish the community had to pay the council tax and business rates and not the individual.

[wee brian]

So when my house is on fire, am I an individual or the community?

[Paul2886]

It seams daft to me that we need lots of staff in every care home just to deal with the occasional fire.

Perhaps a more logical approach would be to have a local service that has specialist equipment and training to help evacuate/rescue people. We could give them big red lorries and blue flashing lights.

thoughts?

Bloomin' heck thats brilliant Wee Brian....what would we call this local service you speak of?

Until the Fire Authorities tell the homes that it is the their responsibilty to ensure the safety of the residents which includes evacuation. The option for the staff to totally rely of attending crews to start moving elderly infirmed residents is just not acceptable. Its a massive problem I know but I'm constantly told that there has to be a fire management plan in place to cater for evacuation of those unaffected by the fire. Its worth bearing in mind that fire crews cannot open up the area of the fire if there are residents in adjacent rooms owing the the release of the products onto the escape routes. In homes where hoists and other complicated bits of apparatus are used this is best done by those trained to use them. Of course it means, and hinges on early detection, staff training, fire contaiment and an adequate FRA

[nearlythere]

So when my house is on fire, am I an individual or the community?

An individual.

[wee brian]

I want a rates rebate

[kurnal]

Agree with you Paulm - but theres a balance to be drawn. Its not realistic for the fire brigade to expect 40 plus residents to be fully evacuated from the care home within 2.5 minutes. It is realistic for the fire brigade to expect for all occupants of the fire zone to be moved to a place of relative safety in an adjoining compartment- probably by the time they arrive. In a real fire situation forget the hoists. It takes far too long.

In my opinion the  homes evacuation plan should provide for stage 1 and stage 2 evacuation and it is absolutely reasonable to expect that the fire service will arrive at some stage and take over. Its not reasonable for the fire service to take the stance that you cant rely on them turning up. They damn well better had do otherwise they aint fit for purpose. I usually build them into the care home evacuation plan at about the 15 minute mark.

[Paul2886]

Agree with you Paulm - but theres a balance to be drawn. Its not realistic for the fire brigade to expect 40 plus residents to be fully evacuated from the care home within 2.5 minutes. It is realistic for the fire brigade to expect for all occupants of the fire zone to be moved to a place of relative safety in an adjoining compartment- probably by the time they arrive. In a real fire situation forget the hoists. It takes far too long.

In my opinion the  homes evacuation plan should provide for stage 1 and stage 2 evacuation and it is absolutely reasonable to expect that the fire service will arrive at some stage and take over. Its not reasonable for the fire service to take the stance that you cant rely on them turning up. They damn well better had do otherwise they aint fit for purpose. I usually build them into the care home evacuation plan at about the 15 minute mark.

And I agree with you Kurnal. But I get frustrated with attending fire crews either telling the staff to shut all the residents behind a fire door and get out, or that they should start getting all the residents outside immediately the alarm sounds.  Then along comes me and explains the principles behind phased evecuation to be told that they have been told different. A lot of crews fail to understand the logistics of evacuation in care homes or the concept of phased evacuation. I know that this was never properly explained to me when I was on the lorries. Wouldn't it be healthy if we set up a  seminar to discuss all these concerns. Lets get CSCI there, home managers, fire station managers, and any other interested parties.

[nearlythere]

Agree with you Paulm - but theres a balance to be drawn. Its not realistic for the fire brigade to expect 40 plus residents to be fully evacuated from the care home within 2.5 minutes. It is realistic for the fire brigade to expect for all occupants of the fire zone to be moved to a place of relative safety in an adjoining compartment- probably by the time they arrive. In a real fire situation forget the hoists. It takes far too long.

In my opinion the  homes evacuation plan should provide for stage 1 and stage 2 evacuation and it is absolutely reasonable to expect that the fire service will arrive at some stage and take over. Its not reasonable for the fire service to take the stance that you cant rely on them turning up. They damn well better had do otherwise they aint fit for purpose. I usually build them into the care home evacuation plan at about the 15 minute mark.

Of course the Fire & Rescue Services will always turn up on time, at least 75% of the time, as required by the Government.

[kurnal]

I thought the Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004 and the IRMPs had done away with all of that, nearlythere? Cant seem to pin them down any more?

[Ken Taylor]

How about a clear leter from 'the FRS or HMG' to every registered care establishment spelling it out to them? I'm not convinced that they are all reading the 'guidance' and appreciating their duty in this respect.

[nearlythere]

I thought the Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004 and the IRMPs had done away with all of that, nearlythere? Cant seem to pin them down any more?

Kernal
Look up the web site of your F&R Sevice. Locate their Integrated Risk Management Plan which should have been posted for consulation, not necessarily recently, and on it you should find standards of fire cover including times of attendance for particular fire risk catagories.

[kurnal]

Theres a challenge nearlythere- thanks for the tip.

Tried Derbyshire and West Mids web sites- couldnt find any reference to attendance times or targets.
Notts still refer to the "current Home office Standards of fire cover" just a little behind the times I believe, but full marks to South Yorks who publish up to date attendance targets based on their assessment of risk.

Can you find the details for your brigade?