Author Topic: Principles of Fire Safety (Read 26897 times)

steve walker · « **on:** September 24, 2005, 03:08:23 PM »

Would anyone like to have a go at listing the fundamental principles of fire safety? By a principle I mean, "a basic generalization that is accepted as true and that can be used as a basis for reasoning or conduct".

I still fondly remember several I was taught when I joined the army 26 years ago: Maintenance of the aim. Surprise. Concentration of force. All round defence. Defence in depth. - Sorry waffling.

Associated with this are the assumptions that come with those principles. For example; that the fire will only start in one place; that people will act sensibly and lawfully.

I suppose the first thing is to define the aim of fire safety.

Anyway, anyone fancy having a go?

Steve

colin todd · « **Reply #1 on:** September 24, 2005, 04:00:48 PM »

Nope.

steve walker · « **Reply #2 on:** September 24, 2005, 07:19:43 PM »

Oh go on.

colin todd · « **Reply #3 on:** September 24, 2005, 07:36:42 PM »

Nah. Take too long.

steve walker · « **Reply #4 on:** September 24, 2005, 10:27:37 PM »

Ok, how about:

Fire safety - The measures designed to protect people and property from fire.

Principles:
Logical - based on reason.
Consistent - free from self-contradiction.
Understandable - the meaning is clear.
Verifiable - based on evidence.
Proportionate - measures proportional to risk

dave bev · « **Reply #5 on:** September 25, 2005, 10:54:23 AM »

which people?

steve walker · « **Reply #6 on:** September 25, 2005, 06:27:20 PM »

All people (including firefighters)

colin todd · « **Reply #7 on:** September 25, 2005, 11:50:49 PM »

Or are they included (as much as Dvaey would like).

steve walker · « **Reply #8 on:** September 26, 2005, 05:50:51 PM »

Quote from: colin todd

The 2 doors are not there to double the FR. They are there to mininize the passage of smoke. its one of the principles you wanted to learn.

Colin,

I am always willing to learn. Please direct me to a publication that clearly states the principles. I am really after fundamental principles rather than good practice or general advice. Maybe they arent listed anywhere - I havent located them. It would help our industry if we agreed what the "Principles of Fire Safety" were.

colin todd · « **Reply #9 on:** September 27, 2005, 01:40:07 AM »

Steve, at what level are you seeking this. Fire engineering or very basic stuff. I mught be able to make some suggestions if you could elaborate.

steve walker · « **Reply #10 on:** September 27, 2005, 04:53:45 PM »

I was hoping that the fundamental principles would be the same for both. I am happy looking at any document. I think that there is a hierarchy of principles. If "Fire Safety" is broken down into parts - fire prevention, fire fighting, occupant escape, property protection etc then each part will have a different definition and different principles. However these principles should not conflict with ones higher up the hierarchy.

Actually I think my original definition would be improved if it read:

Fire Safety - The measures designed to protect people, property and the environment from fire.

colin todd · « **Reply #11 on:** September 28, 2005, 01:55:17 AM »

Hmmmmm. too much to discuss in a BB. Its a bit like saying tell me the principles of health and safety or tell me the principles of electrical engineering. You need a basic textbook from the sound of it. You could try my publication called Fire safety. A guide for management, about which I provided info to someone else in the BB in another thread, and I think we got him one at a discount.

Brian Downes · « **Reply #12 on:** September 28, 2005, 09:05:10 AM »

I am that man!
I am currently using Colin's book to teach a new employee the dark arts, sorry first principles.
An excellent publication for the purpose it is too.
My collegue is not from a fire service background so I have found the book takes everything in a logical order at just the right depth to be effective.
I understand Colin wrote the book for Managers in Industry, but I think it is a great primer for anyone entering the profession in a workpace setting, on a non degree training route.
Probably cheaper and better than an Iddly piddly diddly squat course at Hogwarts...Book review over!

steve walker · « **Reply #13 on:** September 28, 2005, 09:32:16 AM »

Colin, I have looked at your book and I found it full of good advice and information. However I did not find a clear, concise list of the principles that I seek. The reason that I am going on about this is that I think that they would be a benefit for us. If we were able to clearly identify these principles we could, for example, apply them to the guidance coming from ODPM. The guidance could be judged in a more objective way and hopefully a better product would be produced.

But we need to start on solid uncontroversial ground. In spite of the fact that most of this site is full of argument I think that there are core principles that we can all agree with.

The principles that I have listed above (Logical, etc) do not give direct fire safety advice. But their application will assist the production of effective fire safety measures. I think that they are applicable to the fire engineer or the "competent person."

Brian Downes · « **Reply #14 on:** September 28, 2005, 10:03:37 AM »

Steve,
You obviusly did not seek a spiritual interpretation whilst reading the book...you maybe need to spend some time actuallty sat at the feet of one of Guru's.
I am sure the famous Mr. Todd could oblige, or maybe Ian Gough who contributes regularly to this forum.
The first principles are more a state of mind than a set of rules.
No ground is completely solid or uncontroversial...if it were we would all be out of jobs...Local Authority & Private Sector!
Seek enlightenment in the Craft Grasshopper

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Author Topic: Principles of Fire Safety (Read 26897 times)