Is FBU a spent force as a representative body for UK firefighters?

[oilybum]

By all accounts there have been rumours flying around over the last couple of months that the FBU has been losing lots of members. Not helped by the fact that nearly every brigade is and have been sheding uniformed jobs by natural wastage i.e. redundancy by stealth. On top of this the government are steaming ahead at full speed to regionalise controls = - another 3000 jobs, mostly FBU members.

One problem in assessing how many members the FBU has comes from the fact numbers are always delayed in annual report by 12 months. on top of that there is double counting with recruits and retirees counted in brigade returns. Thats further complicated by retained in and outs. Does anyone then actually know how many members the FBU have except the FBU?

Of course loss of members = loss of income and decline of assets. That is consistent with it being reported that all the FBU regions have been told to tighten their belts and avoid unnecessary expenses. More puzzling is the cancellation (in May) of the FBU's national school at Wortley Hall in November. So being cancelled 6 months ahead of schedule it can't be due to apathy or lack of bookings.

As said getting an up to date membership number of the FBU or its state in terms of rise or fall is difficult is difficult. Notwithstanding, from Suffolks ballot last week it emerged they had 227 current members and 68% voted for the recommended strike action. However back in circa 2000 Suffolk were near 500 members. I can also recall seeing recent FBU reports with well over 400 for suffolk. Point is that if suffolk now only have 227 members they have lost 50%+ in the last five years.

Finally main point being that if this drop is mirrored across the UK the FBU are at serious risk of becoming irrelevant. Or are they that now

PS I do hope I don't get banned for raising this contentious issue. Or that this site becomes banned to FBU members by way of FBU resolution based on an interpretation of sedition against the FBU.

[callansdad]

So when all these hundreds or thousands of people leave the FBU, whose going to negoitate their annual payrise?

Are we all going to have to make an appointment with our CFO's to ask nicely for a pay rise cos we did a good job last year?

The FBU is run by its members  and if someone has a problem with the way things are done, the only way to fix it is from the inside.  Not by taking your ball home!

Take Matt Wrack for instance .... Brigade Official (i believe) to General Sec overnight .... democracy in action folks!

[maineroad]

the fbu has got to stop wearing too many hats,on the whole it is a white male  job but the view of many of the above i encountered is that they are taken for granted.maybe this a bit paranoid ,but if it is, there. is a lot of members holding this view & this should be addressed ASAP. at my own station 5 members of various ranks have been retired early as a result of a investigation/whichunt by senior management ,the cost is tems of thousands probably a lot more ,not a peep from the FBU despite the fact that 8 years ago after a femaleret ff resgned & made various allegations the fbu sent in the cavalry & would not represent members accused of bizzare allegations.the oic of the station was promoted !!!!!!,the wt&ret jo were roasted by the cfo ,the fbu have been known as the fbwho ever since,loyalty is a two way street some would do well to remember that.

[dave bev]

many are called, but few shall be chosen!

dave bev

[ellitore]

to dave bev;
what the hell do you mean , 'many are called,but few are chosen'

I was one of the 5 who was bullied out of a job (SEE maineroad)

Ask Staffordshire FBU what they did to support LOYAL members.

They would not support a firefighter who took his case to appeal (the Fbu sec. told him it was a waste of time) and WON!

I was the one who was told by the same FBU Sec "If I was you, I'd be ****ting myself."

If you want the truth, phone TAMWORTH, find out what really happened.

I supported our cause (the FBU) from the the Glasgow dispute of 73, the work to rule of 74, the strike of 77, and all the intervening disputes,culminating in the strikes of 02: I asked for their help TWICE in thirty years, and both times they let me down.

Its about time you climbed of that very high horse your riding!

[dave bev]

ellitore, you asked me to explain my comment, and then promptly launched into an attack without giving me the opportunity to explain my comment! i therefore respond to your initial question.

many are called - i refer to the many fbu officials who carry out their functions despite a constant tirade of abuse from other members with regards to their ability or sometimes even authority and willingness to be able to actually do something , yes, i can assure you many are 'called' (a variety of things!!)

few shall be chosen (callumsdads post re matt wrack) - as in carrying the poison chalice of 'higher office' (as opposed to riding very high horses) - and to be honest i sometimes wonder why they put themsleves in that position.

if you get chance to speak to maineroad, you will find that we have been in contact with each other (if it wasnt maineroad it was someone else involved - i wont place his name on here or his intitials but we have known each other for a few years and i trust and believe his version) and spoke over the phone, i tried to offer as much help and advice as i possibly could. in speaking with him i feel i did get his side/version of events, so i dont see the need to phone tamworth, but thanks for offering me the chance to ring them anyway! (its also outside of my remit and if i did so in an official capacity im sure i would soon run into a few issues internally)

i do not intend making comment over what individuals say to each other in case those comments are taken out of context. and if i had been offended seriously by what an official had said to me i would have considered making an internal issue of it?

dont forget thet the fbu actually supported you throughout those thirty years in all the issues they represented you (whether as a collective or not) - you make issue of two instances where they didnt support you, perhaps those local officials got it wrong, i know i get things wrong as an individual, what i may be surprised by is that whether the 'support' you asked for was refused by a single official or after an elected committee had reviewed your request? i dont know, perhaps they even got it right. what i do know is that as a member you have the right of appeal should representation be refused so if the correct process was followed your request for assistance was not refused as a mere whim, and should have been referred to a 'committee' - probably at regional level to take out the chance of local bias - and there must have been a reason given to you at the time. i dont want to prolong this thread by asking why it was refused but am prepared to continue our discussion privately if you so wish. whatever happened i cannot change, and i doubt if i can convince you that the proper process was followed, (again because i dont know) - all i can say is i can assure you i dont ride high horses, i get things wrong, i am prepared to admit when im wrong and i cannot defend the fbu for every decision ever made on behalf of its members - some of which i disagree with as an individual!

i apologise if you took my comment in the way that it wasnt meant to be taken, and im sorry that you feel you were let down by the fbu.

dave bev

[oilybum]

ellitore
Snap
Having been exposed top a similar situation i think i know where your coming from. The FBU are fantastic if you break a leg or suffer a physical injury. Anything else i.e like individuals being harassed and abused by management and they don't really want to know. Year in year out individual FBU members continue to be picked off by management without adequate help from the FBU. i.e. The Basingstoke massacre, Steve Godward, John Millar, Sub Officer X and the Suffolk hyde affair to name just a few. Lets face it if you are singled out for unscrupluous management attention the FBU don't give a ****. Why should they after all they only lose 1 members subscriptions. So my take on it is that the only value of  FBU membership is as an insurance policy against physical injury.

[dave bev]

oily - im sure you know there are other issues in some of the cases you quote, and im certainly not going to raise them on here. what i do take exception to is the point you make about the fbu not  being 'interested' (my words not yours) in individual members - i think the cases that demonstrate this are far in excess (and i mean FAR in excess) than those who fell they have not had the support they were entititled to. i will reiterate my previous comments in that there is a process that should be followed and no single individual takes the decision to, or not to, give assistance. i suspect you are very close to one of the cases you mentioned which explains your position.

your take on it is your personal view and you are entitled to that view and to share it with others, i have responded on this thread with my opinion (and understanding of the process). i dont intend to respond again - so the floor is yours gentlemen, make of it what you wish!

dave bev

[colin todd]

So, what about the answer to the original question. Is it yes or no. I like things to be digital, as you know how confused I get.

[Lee999]

yes, i think it is.

Dave, you come across as being a fairly well adjusted, intelligent falla with 1st class communication skills.

Unfortunatly, you are not a typical FBU official.

The officials in my county are a gang of left wing militants, determined to undermine and bring down the establishment, tragically for them, if their brains were dynamite, they couln't blow their own noses!

I'm all for unity, but it seems that some of the people who are inclined to wish to represent us, are sometimes not of the type we might want.

present company exepted Dave

ive said before, im not prepared to do it, so i shouldnt criticise!

[colin todd]

Well thats clarified that then. Thank you, Lee. But why would they want to blow their own noses if they can have the members metaphorically blow themselves up along with the establishment.