FireNet Community
FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: Guest on June 18, 2004, 03:33:57 PM
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Has anyone obtained any definitive information as to what the twaddle in the new AD M re doors being held open and visual alarms actually means in practice. If we speify a new frsc doorset in an existing building does it have to be held open by an automatic clsoing device; if so, what if there is no AFD in the building.
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If its an existing building then replacing a door would not be covered by the building Regs. But the DDA will apply so it is then necessary to do whatever is reasonable...
If the new door is part of some "building work" then part M applies and yes you will probably have to provide a hold open device with associated AFD.
Exactly how much AFD you need is not so clear. A detector either side of the door is probably not enough.
If you are really clever you may be able to get a door set that achieves the required fire resistance and doesn't need a closer with an opening force of more than 20N.
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The new door could be part of upgrading fire precautions, say, under the Workplace Regs. It could be regarded as building work, but in any case since hypthetically it is a new door Ad M would mean you need a hold open device surely.
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We are into the "definition of building work" question here. This is about as wooly as law can get.
Your guess is as good as mine but a straight like for like replacement would not normally be regarded as building work.
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No I know that. But a new doorset might
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Your right. Part M is one of the "relevant requirements" listed in Reg 3(3) (I just checked) so a new doorset would be building work and so all the complications would apply to it.
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Yup, that was my view. So, a wee man puts in a new FRSC door to satisfy the FP (W) Regs, say, and WHAM! The might of Part M of the Building Regs hits him harder than Wallace hit the English at Stirling Bridge. So off he goes to read the crap (oops I mean your worthy colleagues' excellent AD M, WeeB, on which I would bet even more than I would on England screwing up in the final match, they never consulted you or the firey people at the ODPM) and falls off his chair when he reads what it says. ''never mind'' quoth he, I will just fit one of them there MDHs (or EVEN a fancy swing free closer). '' Oh dear'' he then goes, I aint got none of them there smoke detector things (but then does AD M even care?). ''Nil problemo'' he thinks, a couple of stand alone smoke detectors will do the trick and satisfy AD M. But oh dear dear, along comes the fire authority ( or maybe even the BCO, since we have just agreed that building work is involved) armed with the recent CACFOA ( or whatever they call themselves now ) policy doc, chuntering about an L3 AFD system (what the hell for- if the MDH is on one floor of a multi-storey building, why do we need AFD on all the other floors). No matter, the wee man says, I will just fork out £50,000 for an AFD system as well as the wee door. Eh, its enough to make wee Chrissy Houston go back into selling the stuff again (possibly with more success this time if the above fairy tale is to be believed). Do all these intelligensia of the civil service and the mighty CFOA and uncle Tom Cobley and all who seem to be writing the stuff and nonsense that those of us with dirty hands have to try to work these days with ever talk or stop to think, or do they draft it all while watching Coronation Street? I knew I should have stuck to vet medicine as a youngster. At least you can bin the excreta from cows.
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nuf said
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Colin, the only error in what you said was relative to when England managed to screw up.
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Yup, should have put more money on that.
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Remind me what happened to Wallace in the end?
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He went to hollywood
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and had his face painted with what to me looked like du luxe
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Eh, its enough to make wee Chrissy Houston go back into selling the stuff again (possibly with more success this time if the above fairy tale is to be believed).
Are you implying there was a lack of success in my sales of such systems?
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yes
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yes
:lol: It's bad enough being slandered, but to be anonymously slandered is worse. Who said that?
:lol:
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me
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Predictable...... :lol:
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If you were successful why would you be selling motor policies for Zurich.
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I don't think there is such a role as a sales person for selling motor policies.
Anyway, I thought you knew I had "seen the light" when I decided to change to the joys of being a Risk Surveyor?
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Chris- do you ever do any work, or do you just post pointless messages on this forum all day?
If the answer is the former, then you will not respond. If the latter, then I expect a rebuff in about 5 minutes.
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I'd say your (anonymous) message is the most pointless of all.
If I were a public servant I might feel slightly compelled to justify myself to you, but I'm not, so I won't.
If you think the forum is pointless, avoid it.
Perhaps you could private message me if you feel further discussion is necessary...........
:D
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If I may offer a word in support of my policy salesman friend Christopher,
if knowledgeable people such as he did not give of their time freely as professionals with a genuine interest in their profession, there would not be a BB for you to place carping, rude comments on, MR Mous(e).
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Many thanks for your comments Mr Todd, however I would like to draw further attention towards my Risk Surveying, and deny these allegations of Sales.
To the (anony)mouse:
Thank you. We're all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of
view.
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Hell, Christopher you were late. It took 6 minutes for you to reply (look at the times on the messages). Mr Mous, said you would only take 5 mins.
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I think we were on the board at the same time - great minds and all that.........
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Fools and all that............
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Yawn, yawn. The Chris and Colin show rumbles on.