Full evacuation of appartments

[kurnal]

Re firenet- the system has reverted in some cases to an earlier version of your password. Might be worth a try. Can you remember the password and username combination you were usung before april 2009- that seems to be the date the system has reverted to.

Ask them for evidence of this "good practice" and point to your real and existing sources of good practice i.e. the ADB and BS5588 part 1.

[Midland Retty]

Have to agree with Kurnal. I would question their reasoning here. OK i haven't seen the plans and there maybe something they have spotted which has made them insist on a full evac / AFD common areas solution. But do question their reasoning and let us know what they say !

[CivvyFSO]

If the building is built to ADB and/or the BS mentioned in ADB, then Building Control basically have to accept it. If this is the case, then the FRS don't really have much ground to go enforcing this sort of change.

[AnthonyB]

From my experience common fire alarms in larger (& built to code) apartment blocks are a waste of time as it's all very well on paper thinking the occupants will nicely take heed and evacuate, but reality is far different - every time I've drilled in one of these situations no one has budged an inch other than any retail present, regardless of time of day/night of alarm, notified in advance/not notified, etc.

I try and go for stay put and very good compartmentation wherever possible because although a full alarm is on paper an effective compensation in reality is isn't all it's cracked up to be outside of HMO's and smaller sites.

[wee brian]

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/professionals/buildingregs/technicalguidance/bcfiresafetypartb/bcfaqs2/bcfaqvol2

second FAQ.

If you make a block of flats into simultaneous evac buidling then it's a hotel. So you need a strategy, almost certainly involving full time staff, to manage the evacuation.

[kurnal]

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/professionals/buildingregs/technicalguidance/bcfiresafetypartb/bcfaqs2/bcfaqvol2

second FAQ.

If you make a block of flats into simultaneous evac buidling then it's a hotel. So you need a strategy, almost certainly involving full time staff, to manage the evacuation.

I would take some convincing about a block of flats becoming a hotel if I install a common areas fire alarm system Wee B. But thanks for the link which is very useful.

We should be aware that some national house building  control organisations are nowadays requiring  common areas fire alarm systems in all blocks where the electricity meters are contained within a cupboard off the stairwell. Least wise thats my observation.

And worse still I have found one national builders  installing addressable part 1 systems with complex cause and effects, controlling staircase ventilation on the one hand  and mimicing domestic stand alone systems on the other- but so far most of these ideas have a huge achilles heel- no Responsible Person on site to manage the panel. Maintenance is another potential nightmare.
One for clarification when the ADB is reviewed in 2013.

Off topic another FAQ needs consideration. I quote
" The Department has commissioned some comparative testing of doors using these two standards. The conclusions of this work are that for the purposes of Item 2.d of Table B1(provisions for fire doors) of Approved Document B (Vol2),  results from EN 81-58 tests can be accepted as equivalent to BS 476 part 22.
In due course, the Department intends to publish the report from this work and amendments to the Approved Document necessary to meet the requirements of the Lifts Directive"

Let us not forget that as far as I am aware the EN 81-58 test requires a test from the landing side only, but some hydraulic lifts being manufactured in Europe now have the plant within the base of the shaft itself. They claim full EN 81 compliance- so either the standard needs changing or we need to consider the effect of this in respect of the protected shaft.  

[Bobbins]

Hate to bring this issue up again (I can't log on with my original user name), but the provision of facilities in common areas still seems to be causing problems: I'm currently dealing with a new purposed built block of flats, and both the Building Control officer and the Fire Service are insisting on detection in common areas to intiate a full evacuation and disabled call points near to the staircases, apparently it's 'good practice' and their communications to me suggest the 1 hr compartment and stay put policy is something that we've come up with, and that such a policy may cause the occupiers issues with the FSO.

Any thoughts?

NU my first point of contact would be the residents of the flats, consultation and education for the benefit of those who live in the property. By informing them of the facts and possible outcomes plus associated costs they can make informed judgements. If they have been fully informed of the details and been given a chance to respond the process can be seen to be fair and those at greatest risk are engaged in their own protection.

Just a thought, it worked when I lived in a HMO; stay put was not popular.

 

[kurnal]

Stay put is not usually considered suitable or safe for most HMOs - total evacuation is a requirement where the building does not have the full compartmentation, ventilation and protected routes of a purpose built block of flat.  So full evacuation has to be made to work and your comments on education and awareness are spot on.