Author Topic: Warehouses, compartmentation and insurance considerations  (Read 3200 times)

Offline kurnal

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Warehouses, compartmentation and insurance considerations
« on: December 13, 2008, 01:47:21 PM »
Does anyone have an opinion on the following secnario?

One large building erected 2004 from Laminated panels stone wool cored on steel frame.Subdivided into two buildings, the separating wall is 200m long. One warehouse is sprinklered and the other is not.
Ther compartment wall construction uses paroc panels with test certs showing integrity of 253 minutes but insulation of only 193 minutes.
The sprinklered side has racked storage with cardboard boxes on racks within 1m of the dividing wall, the unsprinklered side has a clear throroughfare of 6m wide along side the wall.

The insurance company for the sprinklered side are concerned about the risk of fire spread from the poorly managed unsprinklered side to the well managed sprinklered side and are seeking remedial action to achieve equivalence to a 4 hour insulation standard. I am working on behalf of the sprinklered warehouse who are seeking the maintenance of the status quo and resisting a large rise in premium or  expensive changes to install wall drenchers.

Personally I think that such demands are excessive in the circumstances, especially as the risk side has a 6m wide buffer zone between fire loading and wall.
Any views welcome.



 
 

Offline Mark Newton

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Re: Warehouses, compartmentation and insurance considerations
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2008, 02:31:57 PM »
A bit more information would be useful: floor areas/heights, height of storage of boxes, what's in them, what's in the unsprinklered side, how is it stored,, design spec of sprinklers (and whether that is met), pump flow/test results, maintenance standards, location of nearest fire station, hydrant location/size/pressure.
What is the design of the compartment wall supporting structure? Protection of external wall/roof steelwork?
Has design of the building taken spread around ends/top of wall?
AFA?
External storage?
The list goes on................!

Is this a particular US insurance company, I wonder............?

Offline kurnal

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Re: Warehouses, compartmentation and insurance considerations
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2008, 05:48:36 PM »
Yes everthing on the sprinklered side is up to spec an the fire station is two pump retained 600 yards away, there are 5 wholetime pumps within 20 minutes.

I think on further consideration I can answer my own question though. If the unsprinklered side has a fire it will almost certainly affect the steel frame of the building which will in turn compromise the compartment wall. So maybe it is inevitable that my client, having done everything right in his building is not any longer entitled to enjoy any insurance discount in lieu of his sprinkler installation and good management because of the lack of protection in the building next door.

Offline Thomas Brookes

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Re: Warehouses, compartmentation and insurance considerations
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2008, 10:26:06 PM »
Unfortunately now it seems that insurance companies can ask for what ever they want and their is very little you can do about it.
If your client changes insurance companies he will possibly have to declare he has had special conditions imposed on him and then hes back to square one.
I refuse to have a battle of wittts with an unarmed person.

Chris Houston

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Re: Warehouses, compartmentation and insurance considerations
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2008, 09:06:15 AM »
It is quite normal for insuance companies to recommend 4 hour division between non-sprinklered and sprinklered parts of the same risk.   (Insurance companies use the term "risk" as a noun to mean the thing that is insured.

But here is an important difference.  The non sprinklered parts are insured elsewhere and are therefore, in insurance terms, an "exposure" risk.  It is unusual to make recommendations about exposure risks, they tend to be something that is inherent, something that is just accepted for what it is and not something that insureds (those who buy the insurance) can do something about.

But what needs to be established is what are they saying.  I'd briefly summarise the levels of recommendations they might be making:

1 A recommendation of something that would bring something up to the gold standard, but they don't actually expect the client to do
2 A recommednation of something that, if not carried out, will result in them changing terms of insurance - for example increasig the deductible (excess) or not giving the full sprinkler discount.
3 A recommedantion that if not carried out, they will refuse to accept the risk and send your client elsewhere.

This is the important point.  Something that the bloke who turned up with the torch and the measuring tape won't know, that would be an underwriting decision.  Other factors will influence taht decision that have nothing to do with the fire risk: the importance of the customer, the imnportance of the insurance broker who placed the business, their internal underwriting criteria, the profitability of the account, gut feeling etc etc.

Before you start proposing techincal solutions, find the political one.  Get the insurance broker involed.  I work for one and if someone told one my my clients this, my reaction would be "they have a fully sprinklered warehouse with a 2 hour + party wall, this is much better than 99% of the factories you insure, I would hope that you would consider the neighbouring property to be an exposure risk that is inherrent to the risk, as the 4 hours rule is normally applied to sprinklered and non sprinklered parts of the same risk" and I would expect them to accept that - but then I work for the worlds largest insurance broker and insurance companies tend not to wnat to upset the biggest provider of clients.  So, it's more political than technical.  I'd get the broker involved and talk to the insurer before spending any money.  Or ask the insurer the consequences of not doing it.

Offline kurnal

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Re: Warehouses, compartmentation and insurance considerations
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2008, 09:13:09 PM »
Thanks Chris that insight is very useful and just the sort of background info I was hoping for.