Wedging open fire doors

[jakespop]

Can anyone clarify if "wedging fire doors" and similar abuses of fire safety provisions could be considered as "criminal offences"? If so, in what circumstances(or all)?

[Tom W]

Wedging open fire doors means you are not maintaining an effective means of escape.

See the co-op case and countless others you can be prosecuted for it. I think the Co-Op were fined about £1000 a door.

[Midland Retty]

Hi Jakespop

Whilst it is generally undesirable to wedge open fire doors, for obvious reasons, it is not to say that propping a fire door is a criminal offence.

For instance you may have staff propping open fire doors in a sweltering office with poor ventilation. If the staff have been trained to close the fire doors when the office is unattended or if the fire alarm goes off then that may be acceptable subject to risk assessment.

So propping fire doors is not a criminal offence, if however someone was injured or killed in a blaze and it could be proven that propped fire doors contributed directly or indirectly to that injury or fatality it would become subject of legal action.

[Tom W]

I think you would be on very thin ice if you were trying to use that argument! One of the Co-op stores were taking a delivery and a fire door was wedged with a case of beer - its still breaking the law and they were prosecuted. There was no fire.

You are also guilty of breaking the Building Act 1984

[kurnal]

It could be an offence in several circumstances.
Offences under the Fire Safety order usually only arise if a failure to comply  (eg wedging a door) actually places one or more persons at risk of death or serious injury in case of fire.
Who would decide whether that was the case? The Court would decide, and in order to bring you to court the Fire Authority would have to read you your rights etc and take the prosecution forward.

However if the Fire Authority have already served an enforcement notice in respect of your wedging doors open then to breach the requirements of the notice is an offence in itself. There is then no need for the prosecution to prove that persons were placed at risk.

Similarly if an alterations  notice or a prohibition is in force any breach of this would be an offence.

Where offences are committed under the Fire Safety Order procedings may be taken against any person who has a hand in committing the offence in addition to the Responsible Person.  

But please- wedges are a diabolical abuse of a fire door. If it needs to be held open for any reason then please do it in a safe way using an appropriate hold open device that will release on operation of the fire alarm. There are loads of devices on the market to do this, some are safer than others, some doors are more critical than others, you need to identify the correct device for the circumstances of the case. In many situations a device such as a dorgard will be fine, in other cases swing free self closers or magnetic hold open devices controlled by the fire alarm are needed.  

[Mushy]

be careful though...sometimes fire doors do not need to be fire doors and it can confuse inspecting officers

for example, where I work, there are offices that have two way travel once out of the door...but because they thought it was easier to bulk buy fire doors they installed them...now if they are wedged open then I can't see it being an offence....best to take off the self closer to avoid confusion!

[Midland Retty]

I think you would be on very thin ice if you were trying to use that argument! One of the Co-op stores were taking a delivery and a fire door was wedged with a case of beer - its still breaking the law and they were prosecuted. There was no fire.

You are also guilty of breaking the Building Act 1984

It depends Piglet on the specifics of the scenario.

The Fire Authority would have to prove that the propped door(s) placed one or more persons at risk of death or serious injury in case of fire.

To suggest that propping a fire door open is a criminal offence in all cases would be incorrect.

[AnthonyB]

As explained above a propped door that happens to be a fire door is not in itself wrong - however if the fire doorset forms part of the fire precautions measures provided in a building to meet the broad requirements of the order then if it is propped in such a way it would not perform as planned (i.e. wedge not auto release) then it would most likely lead to a breach of the Order.

The Fire Safety Order is a statute of Criminal law, not civil law, dealt with via the criminal system of Magistrates & Crown Courts, so anything causing a breach (be it fire doors, lack of assessment, inadequate training et al) would be a criminal offence with all that that entails other than a power of arrest.

[jokar]

Jakespop, in answer to your original post about all fire safety provisions then yes is the answer.  As Anthony has stated the Fire Safety Order is Criminal Law and as such if an Enforcing Authority took action against a Responsible Person, RP,, the definition in law applies, then a Magistrate or a Judge could deem that offences under the Order had been committed and issue judgement against the RP and apply any or all of the the penalties they deem necessary from fines to imprisonment.

[jakespop]

Thank you for all of the replies. I am not looking at specific breaches at present, merely putting together some training to advise on potential consequences of staff non compliance. From what has been said I woukld gather that staff as well as "Responsible Person" could be considered for prosecution?

[jimbosdad]

In my opinion and dependant on the circumstances, yes under Article 23 of the order

[jokar]

Article 23 is a straight lift from Regulation 14 of the MHSWR and involves people at work and yes they can be considered.

[Goodsparks]

But please- wedges are a diabolical abuse of a fire door. If it needs to be held open for any reason then please do it in a safe way using an appropriate hold open device that will release on operation of the fire alarm. There are loads of devices on the market to do this, some are safer than others, some doors are more critical than others, you need to identify the correct device for the circumstances of the case. In many situations a device such as a dorgard will be fine, in other cases swing free self closers or magnetic hold open devices controlled by the fire alarm are needed. 

I thought fire extinguishers were the safest thing to use when propping fire doors open - surely thousands of people can't all be wrong ?

[AnthonyB]

Thank you for all of the replies. I am not looking at specific breaches at present, merely putting together some training to advise on potential consequences of staff non compliance. From what has been said I woukld gather that staff as well as "Responsible Person" could be considered for prosecution?

Yes - safet ylaw also can cover individuals other than managers/employers/responsible persons - look at the H&S at Work Act that has provision for prosecuting anyone who interferes with or misuses safety equipment/provisions

[CivvyFSO]

However if the Fire Authority have already served an enforcement notice in respect of your wedging doors open then to breach the requirements of the notice is an offence in itself.

An enforcement notice for door wedges? What sort of time-frame are we looking at for that notice?