Holiday accomodation emergency lighting required?

[fuzzy]

The only thing I'll say about torches is that kids love them. Maybe if required, mount it in some kind of alarmed box.

[A J]

I think that the torches recomended by dinnertime Dave are an exellent idea, simple yet effective and user friendly in this situation where in an unfamiliar envionment and in "holiday mode" people can easily find a light source and therefore dispel panic. Also once outside the building you can see other persons. The property in question is in rural Norfolk which at the best of times is severly lacking in borrowed light!

[wee brian]

Next thing youre gonna tell me that the guests get a training session on the way the torch works!

[Tom Sutton]

Wee Brian-Who are your comments directed at or is it general? Or are you just venting your spleen.

[wee brian]

When you've got a spleen like mine, it needs regular venting.

I just think we are all getting a bit carried away with this. I really dont see that emergency lighting in any form is justified in a Holiday let that is in all other respects a single family house. Its all getting very disproportionate.

This is the problem of applying risk assesment without any clear national benchmarks. We are all going to come to very different conclusions.

[The Colonel]

At a meeting between representatives of the Welsh Assembly, the three Wales Fire & Rescue Services and the tourist body Visit Wales in June 2007 the recomendation for emergency lighting in self catering accomodation is;

In hall and landing, generally integral with the smoke detectors though other types may be acceptable. (Should conform to BS 5266 Part 1 2005)

Wales FRS consider self catering apartments and cottages as businesses for the purpose of enforcing the RRO, this view is supported by counsel's opinion obtained by the F&RS

http://new.wales.gov.uk/docrepos/40382/4038231141/403821124154/1616854/1616923?lang=cy

The above will take you to the document

[kurnal]

In addition the English Tourist Board will not offer gradings for holiday lets unless there is a writtten risk assessment.  They are gold plating the legislation- as a written assessment is not normally needed under the Fire Safety Order. But if they want the grading they have to comply.

Now under these terms if asked to provide a risk assessment for people staying in a strange house or one shared with others I think some reasonable provision is appropriate Wee B. I can find my way round my own home in the dark- but when the kids have friends sleeping over or in strange surroundings I am more likely to fall or bump into things.

[The Colonel]

Kurnal, I agree not always is a written assessment required but I always recommend that something is put into writing as a back covering exercise just incase Joe public decieds to sue when things go wrong. I for one would not like to be in the dock and trying to explain that the risk assessment was undertaken but its in my head.

Even as a serving FSO on inspections I always suggested that any risk assessment should be recorded for the reasons above

[Tom Sutton]

wee brian - I agree fully with your last paragraph and without an inspection of the property I would be unable to decide if emergency lighting in any form is justified.

But comparing the holiday let with a single family house in my opinion is not relevant. In domestic premises the level of fire safety is up to the head of the household and if s/he chooses to accept low standards then it’s on their consciences. Also the layout of the premise is familiar to all the family.

In a holiday let then you should expect a higher standard of fire safety. Because you are paying good money to stay there and you are likely to be unfamiliar with the layout of the premises. Also the owner has a duty of care, if a fire was to break out you should expect to be reasonable safe also you have little or no control over the standards in the premises consequently the owner has a moral obligation as well.

[wee brian]

The fact that the Welsh all think its necessary just convinces me that is isnt.

I hear what you are saying TW there is a legal difference and even a slight difference in fire risk but I still aint buying it.

[A J]

As far as im concerned by providing a form of emergency lighting for paying visitors to this premises I have addressed the risk, and actioned a solution to reduce the risk. As kurnal & twsutton pointed out people in an unfamiliar premises need all the help they can get to assist them to find a way out, so you are also addressing general H&S (trip hazards ect) therefore for a small financial outlay you are providing a duty of care to your customers and have a new "get out of jail " card

[Clevelandfire]

The holiday cottage me and the family stay at every year in Wales has luminous pads in each bedroom in which a dynamo torch is mounted. In the dark with the lights out you can see where the torch is.Im a big fan of dynamo torches and dont think it is a bad idea to mount them in each room in small premises. TW already mentioned they could get knicked which is a fair point but lets face it they cost peanuts. Im sorry but if you are making money from a holiday let it automatically becomes a business and you should be responsible for other  peoples safety. You dont go on holiday and expect to be put at risk. Dynamo torches might be a simple and cost effective solution in some cases.

[wee brian]

Why have you guys all got it in for people making money - if the house is on fire i'm not going to mess about with a torch I'm just going to leave.

If I cant see the way out (easy to get lost in these little cottages you know) then a I wont be able to find the torch.  Maybe put the luminous pad on the door!!!!

[Midland Retty]

Well yeah exactly Wee Brian... isn't that what Clevelandfire was talking about?

Im all for fire safety solutions which make practical and financial sense. You maybe ok seeing your way out in darkness, others may not though. We were given an intresting talk by someone who was partially sighted last week.

Until speaking to her I was totally ignorant to some of the problems partially or totally impaired persons have. And thats the problem. I hear loads of people saying " Im alright Jack" citing their own abilities as being sufficient to cope so why shouldn't anyone else's be.

Infact the luminous pad idea is great because Im sure the lady i mentioned above would be able to make out a light square on a dark background.

The only thing with luminous products is they only stay luminous for a set ammount of time. Some may need a good deal of natural or atirificial light to charge up. But I hear these products are improving all the time with luminous products which will last throughout the night on fairly minimal exposure to light.

You are bloomin ratty these days Wee Brian, Im worried about you, always such a nice chappie normally, whats gotten into you eh? has a nasty fire officer kicked you with his jack boots? are you in the dog house with the Missus? Come its friday!!!!

[redbadge]

So where do we keep the torch that we use to find the alarmed box housing the the other torch?