Author Topic: UNWANTED HEAT SOURCES  (Read 24758 times)

Guest

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UNWANTED HEAT SOURCES
« on: February 11, 2004, 09:37:48 AM »
Hi folks
Can anyone list examples of unwanted heat sources which should be taken into account when doing risk assessments

I have thought of electrical equipment (gets hot) ditto with any type of machinery, radiators etc

But can anyone give me any better examples - I am new to this so apologise if my recent questions have seem somewhat irritating and common sense

Thanks

Offline banjo 2

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UNWANTED HEAT SOURCES
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2004, 04:01:25 PM »
The things you mention are not unwanted heat sources unless they are producing heat in a manner or place for which they were not designed.  The electric light bulb is great unless combustible material is stored in close proximity.  So consider the area you are assessing, are heat producing appliances likely to cause a problem? does that portable heater require fixing so that it cannot be moved to an unsafe position.   Anything can be a problem if not correctly used so instead of trying to make a list risk assess the area.

Offline Ken Taylor

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« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2004, 02:28:42 PM »
Presumably you are going down the 'fire triangle' route in carrying out risk assessments. Consider all actual and potential heat and ignition sources (as well as fuel and oxygen) including room heaters, electricity, friction, machinery, plant, chemicals, hot-work, smoking materials, etc.

Offline colin todd

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« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2004, 10:03:39 PM »
Janet and John do fire risk assessment. Makes you hanker for the good old fascist inspecting officers (well maybe not yours Messey). Or maybe it just needs a standard for fire risk assessments. Got to look to the future and all that, when the world and his wife will (or maybe wont) be carrying out FRAs.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Chris Houston

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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2004, 01:57:55 PM »
Dear IF,

What is this building used as?  #

Have you read "Fire Safety - An employers guide"?

Offline wee brian

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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2004, 02:05:30 PM »
One unwanted heat source which we must all consider regardless of building type is a fire!

They are kind of orangey yellow and very hot with nasty smokey stuff coming out the top.

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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2004, 04:17:02 PM »
I think that depends on what is/you are burning!!!

Offline wee brian

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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2004, 08:55:06 AM »
This is all getting too technical for me!

Guest

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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2004, 09:42:04 AM »
Thanks to everyone for their comments - big help!

and erm also thanks to those whom left  sarcy comments too...

Look I  have been given the responsibilty of looking after the fire side of things at work so the whole issue of fire safety is new to me ok - so again I apologise to you if my comments seem a little silly but how about you ask a question to me about hight itensty magnification (my field of expertise) and we'll see who can be smart then.

In an IOSH course module it asks you to list potential "unwanted heat sources" hence why I asked

Thank you - and as you can tell yes I have gone off in a strop! ;)

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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2004, 09:43:43 AM »
Wee Brian

I beg to differ

Fires arent always red and orangey

Havent you heard of smokeless fires either?

PS we beat you on Saturday - Come on wales

Guest

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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2004, 12:06:13 PM »
Hydrogen fires look good, in theory, they should be colourless!!!!!

Offline banjo 2

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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2004, 03:48:05 PM »
This is supposed to be a forum where people in our line of work, at what ever level of knowledge or involvement they may be at, can get assistance and advice. I enjoy a laugh and that has been provided here many times, however, some of the patronising remarks have caused offence to someone seeking assistance and that is sad.  I have been in this line of work for 42 years and I am still striving to learn.  I may come if for some stick myself now, but surely we should be trying to encourage a better understanding not scoring points.

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« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2004, 09:14:01 AM »
Boilers, Electrical Equipment (high resistance), probably not radiators - especially hot water as the water must be below boiing or the pressure difference in the radiator will be too large and it would spring a leak, light fittings - short circuit, overload etc - again elkectrical. Hot works such as re-roofing and welding, any unusual chemical processes which cause heat through exothermic reactions. Just some thoughts, appologies for the comment about Hydrogen fires, but they do burn very efficiently and cleanly - the only product is water!

Offline colin todd

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« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2004, 02:05:12 PM »
Banjo, I think the point being made by some is that the government wish to turn everyone and their cousin loose to carry out their own fire risk assessments without any proper guidance as to what constitutes a  suitable and sufficient FRA or who is competent to carry them out. Now the old style fasicst fire officers were/are a pain in the sit-upon with all their dogmatic prescriptive crap, but they couldn't do much harm, in that there would be no major shortcomings in fire safety (as a rule). And while we will all (certainly here on the bulletin board ) try to help those lumbered with the task of carrying our FRAs, does it not scare the you know what out of you that in some life risks they will be left to people who dont even know where to start. In doing some work for the landlord of a multi-tenanted commerical property last week, I strayed into a tenant' s unit and then wished I hadn't. The tenant had created inner rooms on the first floor with no vision whatsoever, but worse still had taken away the protection of the staircase from the first floor. Now, the first floor occupants have to enter a printing machine area on the ground floor to reach a final exit, and there is not even any AFD on the ground floor, while the manning of the ground floor is minimal. But, yes, the health and safety officer of the company ( who is the wife of a director of the company) had done a risk assessment allegedly.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline AnthonyB

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« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2004, 02:34:50 PM »
Which is why I wish the regs gave landlord's of multi-occupancies the responsiblity to be in overall control of the building, rather than just the areas they control, as it is always the tenants that cause the problems.

Our work is almost exclusively in multi occupancy offices & shops and time after time we find that it's the tenants that cause the safety compromises. And even where a tenant has health & safety officers their efforts are usually poor resulting in holes in precautions or even the installation of totally unecessary facilities & precautions that are of no use.

One recent example was a building where after our first FRA the landlord replaced the knackered 240V system and put in a very comprehensive addressable system with AFD. The installation was not L1, but had been done so that if a particular tenant required through their own assessment more detectors it could easily be accomodated into the house system. But on reinspection a new tenant's bright H&S officer decided to install a 64 zone addressable system of his own to their suite, with duplication of sounders and call points (two MCPs right next to each other!). The suite was only 250M2! A link to the house system was provided, but guess what - after all this unecessary complication and expense they'd not considered maintenance- no weekly tests or 3/6 monthly services had been carried out. And don't start me on the emergency lighting.........
Anthony Buck
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