FIRE CAUSED BY BATTERY CHARGER

[kurnal]

I agree with most of what you say Bleve but whilst most of my customers would happily accept the need for greater care to prevent fires and mitigation of their effects- maintenance, housekeeping, tests and inspections, sensible spacing of the charging area from combustibles, ventilation if necessary, fire fighting equipment, i feel most would accuse me of being OTT if I started to ask for existing, well managed charging areas to be enclosed in their own fire compartment within an existing building.

On a similar theme I am about to start a new topic on standards in B&Bs  and guest houses having stayed in three over the last weekend, none of which had given any consideration whatsoever to fire safety. It made me question what was reasonable. In one of them I would not have been able to produce an action plan that would have even approached national guidance- but they used to have a fire certificate! Made me question my own standards and wonder if I am sometimes unrealistic in my expectations.

[nearlythere]

I agree with most of what you say Bleve but whilst most of my customers would happily accept the need for greater care to prevent fires and mitigation of their effects- maintenance, housekeeping, tests and inspections, sensible spacing of the charging area from combustibles, ventilation if necessary, fire fighting equipment, i feel most would accuse me of being OTT if I started to ask for existing, well managed charging areas to be enclosed in their own fire compartment within an existing building.

On a similar theme I am about to start a new topic on standards in B&Bs  and guest houses having stayed in three over the last weekend, none of which had given any consideration whatsoever to fire safety. It made me question what was reasonable. In one of them I would not have been able to produce an action plan that would have even approached national guidance- but they used to have a fire certificate! Made me question my own standards and wonder if I am sometimes unrealistic in my expectations.

Therein lies the rub K. All fire safety measures are over the top, until there is a fire.
But the chances are they won't have one.

[BLEVE]

At the end of the day we can only provide advice, whether it is acted upon is down to the client.

[Davo]

IMHO

Going by the book on battery charging areas would close hundreds of businesses. Lets be sensible.

Would you insist we all change to car X as it is the safest in a crash?
Would you ban Chelsea Tractors as they cause most damage to the other vehicle?


davo

[BLEVE]

I dont see how keeping combustible materials a distance of 2.2-3.2 metres away from a lift truck charging point would close down hundreds of businesses.

At the end of the day, charging point fires ocurr and unless extinguished, result in fire fire spread. Separation by distance may well prevent further fire spread, loss of property and or life.

Car design or model selection has nowt to do with it.

In the main, within the UK fire safety legislation concentrates on life safety. Within other countries the legislation and standards look towards simultaneous property protection and life safety.  We should remember that there are more frequent and also serious consequences in terms of property damage, loss of livelihoods, environmental damage associated with the outbreak of a fire.

[Davo]

BLEVE

Very much agree with last para!

What I am saying is don't rely on statistics, unrealistic testing eg fire doors without seeking real life experiences.
Those guys who have got the tee shirt (doffs cap) will tell you a fire door could go in as little as 8 minutes depending on circumstances


davo

[BLEVE]

Davo,
That is exactly what I am saying. For intsnace I have seen fire risk assessment reports applicable to sleeping risk premises overlooking or automatically accepting that a nominal georgian wired glass top and bottom panel door is rated as a FD30 door. When had they been capable of assessing the door, they would have noticed that the door had no insulative properties and the glazing retaining system was unsuitable. Given the situation in question the door would be lucky to last 10 minutes. On a connected matter the door was devoid of cold smoke seal and given the leakage rates anticipated, this would have put a great number of non ambulant people in harms way.

As I have said before, I will typically evaluate the risk with a combination of calculation and experience of fire/smoke.

 

[kurnal]

For intsnace I have seen fire risk assessment reports applicable to sleeping risk premises overlooking or automatically accepting that a nominal georgian wired glass top and bottom panel door is rated as a FD30 door. When had they been capable of assessing the door, they would have noticed that the door had no insulative properties and the glazing retaining system was unsuitable. Given the situation in question the door would be lucky to last 10 minutes.

Your point is very valid  but each situation is different and needs to be judged on its own merit. There are millions of doors constructed to older standards up and down the country and the knife edge we have to walk is providing a balanced view. Many doors installed in the 1960s for example had superb standards of joinery but were very poor in terms of glazing. Many of us have seen georgian wired glazing slump out of the frame as a result of exposure to fire.

We must of course  recognise that some doors are more important for their smoke control properties than their integrity - if the buildings are  managed correcly many of the doors on protected routes are unlikely to ever be exposed to the full radiated heat flux of a fire?

These decisions are never easy- its simple to measure an individual building against the design guidance and produce an action plan. But if your client has say 1500 such properties and all are in similar condition and design (eg social housing provision transferred out of former local concil stock) then a more pragmatic view needs to be taken.

No good setting targets and objectives that cannot be achieved. Prioritisation is the key.