FireNet Community
PRIVATE INDUSTRY => PetroChemical => Topic started by: Guest on April 25, 2004, 11:14:59 PM
-
Are there no persons from the Petro-Chemical or Nuclear industry who would like to start something in this section? You work in a hazardous environment, how about sharing some view and experiences with us?
He’s one I’d like to know, what is it like working in Industrial fire fighting over local authority. Is your training similar to ours, where do you go for training, how often do you do re-certification etc. It must be thirty years since Flixborough; what about that large oil tank fire in the 80’s? Anyone still serving or retired, got any views on how the Industrial teams involved, handled these jobs?
-
We are the forgotten, under-funded poor relation in fire fighting. The government and HSE, never include us in any thinking on up grading work practices, why?
Our training courses are often short, and limited to the bare minimum. This is not due to training establishments, not being able to deliver, because the government don’t set standards. So the companies ask the courses to be short and infrequent.
Refresher courses can be as much as 5 years apart, depending on the company you work for. More and more industries are moving over to using so called part time emergency responders from the work force. Multi-national companies, who want to save a few hundred thousand and the first thing to get looked at for the chop, are the sites full time emergency service.
The accounts mind:
“I know how to save money, get rid of the whole time fire dept, send some of the work force on a one week fire course” Call them an emergency response set up and we are covered. Pay them a minor retaining fee and if able to do so, they can train together a few times a year”
The people recruited, do so with the best intentions, and may even have to volunteer to secure their job. Invariably, they always are useless. If they turned the tables and we took over their work area. Would any company say you are competent with a week’s course?
I know from experience, these teams are dangerous, because they think they know what their doing. If you took anyone of them aside and gave them practical or written tests, you would be horrified at their lack of job knowledge. It is common sense, if people are not properly trained and competent they are unsafe.
It sickens me to know we are being eroded and yet nobody in any sort of position of authority is monitoring and finding out why this is going on. The law of averages will catch up, and eventually a fire-incident will occur and these so-called emergency responders will get themselves or those they are there to assist, seriously injured or even killed.
You can hear the enquiry, detailing the inept approach of the company involved in their attitude towards a competent, emergency response department. When are the government and HSE you going to wake up and get to grips with this?
Does this answer your question?
-
Interesting - the 'government don't set the standards' - well why should they?
The standards for ALL persons working in a fire service are already there! The latest National Occupational Standards were issued in August 2001 and were written by the fire service, including industry (for example BNFL were involved). These standards are available for any fire service to use - it is (presumably) your employers that are chosing not to?
Invovle your representative bodies in getting these standards (or the parts of them that apply to your workplace - such as Educate and Inform your Community on safety may not be suitable?) used for your service!
-
It fine what you say about occupational standards, but a small industrial setup won’t have a training dept such as a county fire brigade. If there lucky, they’ll have one or two guys in the dept whom struggle to keep on top of the day to day issues. If they are all volunteers from inside the company whom respond to pager or a phone call, how likely are they to know or have time for IPDS or anything else? You need to walk a mile in another mans shoes to understand his problems.
-
As I said:
These standards are available for any fire service to use - it is (presumably) your employers that are chosing not to?
Invovle your representative bodies in getting these standards (or the parts of them that apply to your workplace - such as Educate and Inform your Community on safety may not be suitable?) used for your service!
I do understand your problem, but it is not for the external agencies to help you now that the standards work has been done! It is for you to help yourself and fight your corner inside your organisation with your representative body. If that does not work - well I am sorry but there is really nothing anyone else can do. I am not being negative but that is the situation.
Sometimes you have to walk on your own feet to get anywhere, there is not always a carry chair.
-
When you read something does it not sink in? Obviously you don’t wear shoes you just walk on water, over anyone who gets in your way. It’s always the fault of the person doing the complaining is it? For not standing up like a real man!
I wish I worked in your black & white, simple little world; no union protection here my sympathetic chum!
-
Gents why argue, yes Occupational fire teams, have failings, are you telling me, Local authority, Airport, or Military don’t? I work in industry, we are a little behind in some areas but we are making up good ground.
I have seen the IPDS documentation; we don’t have a dedicated training department true; we maybe a little behind in taking on this next stage of development, but we’ll get there. Accept we work in different environments, with some different rules. We still potentially face the same uncertainties and dangers and therefore we should both appreciate the others points of view.
-
Guest
I am really sorry that i have appeared to be so negative, it is mnot my fault that you work for an employer who does not take their staff seriously. I am truly sorry. However it is not for the rest of us to sort out your problems, we will help in any way we can. If the problem was so serious that the HSE felt they could intervene I am sure they would. If your employer was so big that it might be such a concern perhaps you might have union recognition? Perhaps you could shed som elight on your particualr works fire service and the industry and I may be more able to make suggestions. Out of interest if you get some union members then your employer cannot refuse to recognise them..............
I walk on people? No I walk with them, but only when they are prepared to stand up and walk themselves.
Complain? Yes. Whinge without accepting reality? No.
-
Hi
May I let you know that the COMAH industries who have most of the hi -hazard Emergency response teams have their own network at www.jioff.com. This is now becoming a world wide network [I think I saw Colin Todd join the other day!]
The networking side is by subscription only, via the Company Fire officer or Safety / Emergency planning manager.
It is tackling the very real issues facing Major Hazard sites, sharing expertise and fire fighting techniques.
it has just recently launched competancy based training packages for Industrial firefighters and is encouraging their adoption by companies.
Joiff have bigger appliances than most!!
We are trying!
Peter
-
Sorree typo www.joiff.com
-
I partially agree with some of the comments made on this messageboard about the competence of industrial firefighters.
I am one myself and would never pretend to be as highly qualified or knowledgeable as Proffesional firefighters.
I do resent some remarks made about us being "dangerous" however.
I can assure you that our fire team take firefighting very seriously, and safety is our paramount prioity.
SOmetimes I do feel we are mocked by those who call themselves proffesional firefighters, their attitude has always seemed to be that we are "pretenders", "have a go hero's" and such.
We never pretend to be what wwe are not we are there just to try and help and negativity doesn t help things
Yes there should be national standards fire industrial brigades YES there should be greater imput from management but this is private industry where money is king , and you talk about unions well i have to say theyu wont help here - it needs to be a government pushed capmaign to improve training standards for Industrial Fireifghters
-
I agree with the comments feautured in the previous message.
Where companies can afford to cut corners they will, its hard to convince top line management to fork out lots of money and time for work force to go on long expensive training courses.
It does need a governemnt agency posiibly even the fire authorty to impose the standards already drawn up.
We need all the help we can get to convince those financially motivated sceptics!!!
-
I also agree with many of the comments above.
As any fire safety or health and safety officer will know, trying to get the through the safety message to some people, especially higher management can fall on deaf ears. This is particularly the case when money is concerned.
How many times have you heard an employee at your institution moaning, muttering on saying things like " Why do we need fire safety training - we never have had a fire here!"
Now relate that to the Industrial Fire Brigade Scenario
Officer in Charge of Industrial Fire Brigade:
" Mr Managing Director we need to train our personell to a much better standard than they are now - our team cant operate safely we need better equipment, PPE, and firefighting training"
Mr Managing Director " Nonsense your teams are there to provide first attack firefighting only the local fire brigade will do all the dangerous stuff"
Fire Officer " But first attack firefighting carries danger with it. What if one of my men is hurt or killed?"
MD: "How much will it cost"
Fire Officer: " Not sure yet but it will be fairly expensive, we are talking thousands not hundreds"
Mr Managing Duirector " What if someone gets hurt or killed you say?...thats a bit dramatic - it wont happen - we have never had a fire here, and besides I cant commit funds for training there are far more important priorities that requires expenditure"
Fire Officer " Ok when someone is killed if you are happy telling that to the Judge then fine"
Its an all too typical scenario Im afraid.
I firmly believe it needs some sort of intervention by the government - employers have a duty to ensure all employees are competent in their jobs and can work safely.
Trying to convince managment to do something is very difficult unless you can refer to some sort of legislation
A classic of this is as follows:-
Fire Safety / Health and Safety Officer "Mr Managing director we need to install emergency lighting in the basement"
MD: "How much will it cost"
Fire Safety Off " About £2000.000
MD (Falls off chair) "Nope! to expensive we are not having that, weve done without it this long why do we need it now?"
Fire Safety Off: "Well Im afraid all this time you've been doing without it you have been breaking the law"
MD "We've never had an inspection"
Fire Safety Off "Fine well if you want the fire authorty to instruct you it must be done then go for it , but you maybe fined and or told too close the premises until those imporvements have been made"
Its a classic scenario yet again and Im labouring the point too far now but thats my angle on this situation
Im out of here before I bore anyone else to death :oops:
Guys you still awake :?:
GUYS????
-
Yep agree with that!
Too little funding!
-
funding, ahhhhh
or is it cos they dont give a toss?
i say bring on the consultants, theyre always up for a laugh and a pocket filling exercise
-
I partially agree with some of the comments made on this messageboard about the competence of industrial firefighters.
I am one myself and would never pretend to be as highly qualified or knowledgeable as Proffesional firefighters.
I do resent some remarks made about us being "dangerous" however.
I can assure you that our fire team take firefighting very seriously, and safety is our paramount prioity.
SOmetimes I do feel we are mocked by those who call themselves proffesional firefighters, their attitude has always seemed to be that we are "pretenders", "have a go hero's" and such.
We never pretend to be what wwe are not we are there just to try and help and negativity doesn t help things
Yes there should be national standards fire industrial brigades YES there should be greater imput from management but this is private industry where money is king , and you talk about unions well i have to say theyu wont help here - it needs to be a government pushed capmaign to improve training standards for Industrial Fireifghters
-
gcf - i think you may not be up tp speed with the suite of national occupational standards and the avaialbility of nvq's or for our scottish folk snvq's (pretty imaginative that one, eh!)
why n ot take alook you may find that the standards you refer to actually do exist, and theyre not just for local authority brigades, they apply right across the 'fire' family?
-
GCF371
I agree with the comments that some so called professional fire fighters think industrial brigades are dangerous. It has been their belief for a long time and I don’t think that the arrogance will change no matter what happens. They will however always take your money off you to train you and tell you don’t worry we will be there to show you how. Industrial brigades can save a company not just it premises and cash but also it reputation. I know of certain brigades in the country that have to do as they are told by industrial brigades when they go on site as they have know knowledge of what they are dealing with.
Part of the arrogance of the professional fire fighter comes from the officer mentality that’s does exist in the British fire service. It’s the old we know best so please push off and don’t interfere.
I trained industrial fire fighters for many years and I can tell you some of the training fire they fought at the end of there five day course many professional fire fighters would never see in there service.
Don’t feel mocked by them at all some of them never fight any real fires and never see much in their whole service. They tend to be the most vociferous. Chin up and don’t let them grind you down you are as good as them.
-
GCF371
Forgot to add they feel the same way about retained fire fighters as well.
-
Morning/Evening all,
Just signed up/in. I work as a full time Firefighter for a private company. We cover Air traffic Control near heathrow. About 90% of our team are retained with various brigades... Kent, Hampshire, Bedfordshire, Devon and Surrey. We have some ex wholetime and ex military. I am one of the few that came off the street and recieved my training from Derbyshire Fire and rescue Service and Surrey Fire and Rescue.
I see that many of you have the same issues that we come up against... be they small minded wholetime local boys attitudes or the BIG boss man's attitude towards training and his prized purse strings. London Fire Brigade are our 'cavalry' and we have seen a change in their attitude towards us. We set up drills with them and they soon learned that we have many skills to offer. Especially when it came to specialised info and guidelines in deep, dank smoke logged basements....
We are due to close down in 2007. Can anyone tell me of any Industrial fire units in or around London and the Home counties?
Much appreciated.
Stay safe
-
DD
It's pleasing to note that LFB personnel have changed their attitude (see Colin it can happen!).
I no longer work in that area, but I once knew the LAATC very well (it used to have the biggest/most complicated VESDA system I have ever seen) and wonder what is planned with the site after closure??
Also what happens to your team after the big day??
-
Well, a small world indeed. Various rumours surround the site... latest is that the American forces are looking at it. The VESDA is still very much alive and well here too. The company have fallen short on all of their early promises and a recent merger has left us a little dead in the water. So we will all end up going our seperate ways. Sad but true.
So in what way were you involved with site Messy? MOD?
-
No mate.
LFB. Stationed nearby, and on the PDA for the site. Went on several visits and a few exercises, not to mention 1 or 2 jobs there.
Also had a mate who was part of the RAF fire team (that shows how long ago) who had access to the facilities there (Gym and bar -usually in that order!!)
-
I see. My mate Shaun has just finished his basic with London and is to be based at hillingdon in the next few weeks on Blue Watch.
The bar has been closed down for a long time now... shame! We have had hayes come down a few times for some 11d's and a couple of guideline drills.
-
With all of the risk categories are being dropped by the government, and therefore guaranteed response times no more. Won’t this put the emphasis back on the companies to arrange adequate fire cover, thereby upping the importance of industrial fire fighters?
Eddie
-
Wonders if all the good ideas in the above posts will be inplimented due to the recent fire?
-
Hi - Great debate !!
Two of my relatives used to be full time firefighters for ICI - is there a list of all private/industrial full time sites held on this web site or anywhere on the web ? I know there are teams based at oil refinery's, some high risk checmical plants & at for BNFL at some of their sites (*Sellafield ?). I also belive that the defence fire service still maintnains crews at some military linked sites such as ammo dumps etc ? The DEFRA organsitaiton ,maintains crews possibly such as Porton Down now that they are privatised - any ideas ? Is there a full list of all non home office or MOD sites ? I know others have part time crews - even BT has volunteer crews at thier Madley Heath earth station (2 pumps) and at the Research site at Ipswich (2 pumps again) - It's the full time sites I'd like to find out more on - any ideas ?
-
As you can see from the responses to this section, there are few willing to come into the light and discuss their role. I don’t know of any private industry fire related web pages, probably because companies don’t want to advertise their existence.
After the largest “B” class fire in recent years not one word from anyone whom was there, come on why are you all so reluctant to discuss? Ff are usually quite vocal about their trade but seem meek and reserved in this instance.
I would have imagined nuclear, chemical industries etc, you really do surprise me that BT has volunteer cover; please tell more?
-
Hi
During the strike in Fire service in 1974 (?), BT decided that the risk to the Martlesham Research Facility was high - it is after all the biggest Telecomms lab site in the world with chemicals, gas, fuel risk plus the buildings and the fact that 6000 worked on site at its peak. It was the old RAF Martlesham Heath site - famous for Douglas Bader et al. ....The Post Office (as it was then) purchased 2 old Essex pumps and set up a 4 'watch' volunteer crew who were also on call via pager in silent hours. The security guards on site man a 'communications room' which includes fire alarms etc.
After the strike BT decided to keep the on site fire service and it survives until today. I don’t actually work there but know one of the crew and they train with both Essex and Suffolk Fire service as well as holding annual competitions with other private services such as Felixstowe Dock service (another volunteer crew) and others such as the volunteer crew from ICIC Paints at Stowmarket. BT also has 2 pumps at the vast Madley Heath satellite earth station in Herefordshire. Again I don’t have anything more specific apart form that both site are purely volunteer although I believe they are paid a retainer of some description. Whether BT has any other crews at other sites I'm unsure but if any then Goonhilly in Cornwall would probably be the most likely as it is the biggest earth station in Europe I believe.
If any one else logs onto this site and has any information on the following, these are the only companies I know that maintain full time services -
BNFL - Douneray and Delafield - anywhere else?
ICI / Astra Zeneca - Huddersfield - anywhere else ?
Oil Refinery's - Immingham ? Scotland ? - not sure where they all are - are they all full time cover ?
DERA / Qnetica - ex Defence Fire Service crews at some of their airfields / high risk sites ?
Chemical Works on Teesside / Cheshire - there are full time crews here but these all seem shrouded in unnecessary secrecy - surely someone must have some info on these ? I know that BASF have a crew and that some of the companies have pooled resources to create a sort of private emergency fire and ambulance service on Teesside
DFS - These obviously cover most military airfields and share other support with the RAF fire Service but they also cover non flying locations such as RAF Fylindales Radar site near Whitby (2 crews full time) and ammo dumps and fuel depots but again no details know. The RAF also supply a military full time crew at the Rudloe Manor tunnels complex near Corsham with a domestic pump.
Interestingly the MoD has privatised the airfield cover on Ascension Isle to SERCO although they are all ex DFS or RAF. As far as I know this is the only operational RAF site that has had it's fire cover privatised.
As for industrial crews if any readers can help with info, book names or web site , I'm a willing reader !
Cheers
-
Hi
During the strike in Fire service in 1974 (?), BT decided that the risk to the Martlesham Research Facility was high - it is after all the biggest Telecomms lab site in the world with chemicals, gas, fuel risk plus the buildings and the fact that 6000 worked on site at its peak. It was the old RAF Martlesham Heath site - famous for Douglas Bader et al. ....The Post Office (as it was then) purchased 2 old Essex pumps and set up a 4 'watch' volunteer crew who were also on call via pager in silent hours. The security guards on site man a 'communications room' which includes fire alarms etc.
After the strike BT decided to keep the on site fire service and it survives until today. I don’t actually work there but know one of the crew and they train with both Essex and Suffolk Fire service as well as holding annual competitions with other private services such as Felixstowe Dock service (another volunteer crew) and others such as the volunteer crew from ICI Paints at Stowmarket. BT also has 2 pumps at the vast Madley Heath satellite earth station in Herefordshire. Again I don’t have anything more specific apart from that both site are purely volunteer although I believe they are paid a retainer of some description. Whether BT has any other crews at other sites I'm unsure but if any then Goonhilly in Cornwall would probably be the most likely as it is the biggest earth station in Europe I believe.
If any one else logs onto this site and has any information on the following, these are the only companies I know that maintain full time services -
BNFL - Douneray and Sellafield - anywhere else?
ICI / Astra Zeneca - Huddersfield - anywhere else ?
Oil Refinery's - Immingham ? Scotland ? - not sure where they all are - are they all full time cover ?
DERA / Qnetica - ex Defence Fire Service crews at some of their airfields / high risk sites ?
Chemical Works on Teesside / Cheshire - there are full time crews here but these all seem shrouded in unnecessary secrecy - surely someone must have some info on these ? I know that BASF have a crew and that some of the companies have pooled resources to create a sort of private emergency fire and ambulance service on Teesside
DFS - These obviously cover most military airfields and share other support with the RAF fire Service but they also cover non flying locations such as RAF Fylingdales Radar site near Whitby (2 crews full time) and ammo dumps and fuel depots but again no details that I know. The RAF also supply a military full time crew at the Rudloe Manor tunnels complex near Corsham with a domestic pump.
Interestingly the MoD has privatised the airfield cover on Ascension Isle to SERCO although they are all ex DFS or RAF. As far as I know this is the only operational RAF site that has had it's fire cover privatised.
As for industrial crews if any readers can help with info, book names or web site , I'm a willing reader !
Cheers
-
The BT crew at Madley in Herefordshire were discontinued a number of years ago as part of BT's cost cutting, not sure if thier other site is still going
-
Hi to all those remaining industrial FireFighters.
Having read some of your messages we thought we would add a peice about ourselves.
Jaguar Cars and Landrover under Ford both have full time Industrial Fire Departments providing Fire and Ambulance service on site
Jaguar Cars has 12 men per site on a alternating shift pattern with 4 men per crew days and 3 men per crew nights 24/7 365 days a year.
These comprise of crews at Castle Bromwich Birmingham 1 pump, 1 Ambulance, 1 ISU (incident support unit).
Browns Lane Coventry 1 Pump and 1 Ambulance
Whitley Coventry 1 pump and 1 Ambulance.
Landrover has 4 watches with 5 men per watch on 3 day 3 night basis providing cover at Solihul Birmingham 1 pump 1 Ambulance
Gaydon 1 Pump and 1 Ambulance.
Ford has various of their sites dotted around the UK with Fire Departments either full time crews or employees taken from there normal working duties to attend incidents.
Here at Jaguar Cars Castle Bromwich like most industrial site we have men who currently service as retained, ex brigade and others who have worked through the ranks within the company.
All of the sites invite the local Brigades to use our facilities for training purpose. We have regular training with West Midland Ambulance Service. Who provide our training in Pre Hospital Trauma Care course. Basic Fire and BA training is proved by Warwickshire Fire Service and most of the crew through Morton College have gained their NVQ 3 Fire Fighting award.
Before the dimise of the Industrial Fire services with large companies shutting down Jaguar Fire Department were regular attenders and winners of most competitions held up and down the country for the industrial and retained fire services.
Hope this gives you a small insite to those of us that are left and any others that maybe interested. If your interested in more details please let us know by forum
Cheers from the Jag
-
Great info from Jag the man !! Very interesting about Landrover and Ford etc - is there anything on the web either offically or something the crews have put together privately ?
To my knowledge you are the first I have found in private industry to post on the wewb other than military or airfield/oil industry.
There can't be many 'full time/professional' private crews out there in industry as most companies that retain crews do so on a 'taken from the factory floor' basis.
Info found so far on the web FOR FULL TIME INDUSTRIAL crews -
AWE - ALDERMARSTON
UKAEA / BNFL - DOUNREY, SELLAFIELD AND OTHER UKAEA SITES
TEESSIDE EMERGENCY RESPONSE TEAMS - SHARE RESOURCE FOR VARIOUS PETRO SITES ON TEESSIDE (they won't release much info on the web)
ICI Paints - Slough
Astra Zeneca - Huddersfield - not sure about other UK Locations
BASF - Teesside
Any more out there ?
-
Other Uk AstraZeneca Sites run a Fire Auxiliary system, where you say, are taken from Chemical Process plants. However they are managed by a full time crew of Incident Managers.
Not all sites in the uk have a fire crew, only those with a Chemical Process facility. Specifically, Macclesfield in Cheshire and Avlon down in Bristol area.
Also don't think Huddersfield is AstraZeneca and more, think that went over to their Agrochemical group which I think is handled by Aventis??
Full of useful info I am.
-
The site has been renamed, it isn't Zeneca anymore, I believe it is indeed aventis.
They had (when I was on site a couple of years ago for a demolition contractor) a three bay station and had a high roof transit (presumably for maintenance as they service everything from extinguishers upwards themselves) and a Foam tender. they also have a site ambulance.
Although the core crew appeared full time (i.e. not production staff) they seemed to have other duties - I often found them acting as gatehouse security when entering site
-
The Corus Steelworks in S****horpe have got some emergency teams. Not sure whether they are full time or whether they act on alerter. I have heard that they use a couple of Green Goddess fire appliances and they also have a at least one Ford Transit High Roof Ambulance.
-
Pfizer pharmecutical company in Sandwich, Kent have a fire department.
They have a couple of full time officers per shift (7-7) with the rest of the crew made up from workers across the site if there is a call. Most of them are retained FF's in the county.
They operate a fire tender (pump) and a RIV.
-
I AM NEW TO THIS FORUM. I AM EXTREMELY INTERESTED IN INDUSTRIAL FIREFIGHTING AND WAS WONDERING IF ANY OF YOU GUYS COULD GIVE ME SOME ADVICE ON HOW TO GET INTO THE BUSINESS, i.e. TRAINING COURSES, ENTRY REQUIREMENTS, PRIVATE FIRE BRIGADES, ETC.
P.S. ESPECIALLY ANY INFO FOR MIDLANDS, STAFFORDSHIRE, CHESHIRE AREAS OF THE COUNTRY. THANKS.
-
I've been an industrial fire fighter for approx 18 years. In that time my company has always recruited into the section from its existing workforce. Those getting the job normally have some sort of fire background either with the company as part of its emergency response team, employees who are Retained or employees with past experience, WDS, MoD etc. My employer likes personnel to be already trained and familiar with the site and its hazards.
On goiing training is always an uphill struggle as you are seen as a necessity rather thah an assett. Probably cos you're non profit making. But it is a good job hence still doing it after all this time.
Most of my colleagues are also Retained, so in a way getting the best of both worlds.
Obviously cant speak for all industrail Fire Depts. but I hope this is of some help.
-
Some of the Security Companies provide fire teams for various sites. The usual situation will be that you will be part of the security team and also provide fire cover for a site.
Once you are on a site you will tend to stay there even if the security company changes. The normal situation is if you are working for ABC Security and they lose the contract you will find that a smartly dressed person will come on site and say "I'm from XYZ Security would you like to work for us."
If you are taken on for fire fighting duties the Security Company will normally provide the training you need, although whether they pay you whilst you are being trainied is a different matter.
The major problem with security companies is they will try to use as lower manning as possible. So that a fire tender with BA will only be manned by 3 people and they may well be manning an ambulance as well.
-
Thanks for the info guys.
Herdewyke, can you tell me who you currently work for as an industrial firefighter ?
I am also looking for specific industrial firefighter training, with the outcome being a recognised qualification, with the hope of getting me started in the career. Any you guys know of any organisations that provide such traing ?
-
Firefighterblue
An American company called PPG Industries.
I believe a group called JOIFF deliver Industrial training with some form of recognised certification. Our Safety Mgr visited them a couple of times and brought back info on courses that they offered, but this was 5 - 6 years ago. At the time they did alot of talking I wasn't that impressed (I'm going to get it in the neck now!) maybe they've got their act together now.
Like many Industrial fire depts we've suffered cut backs, going from fifteen personnel down to just six. You couldn't join a company fire dept like mine without prior training as there would be no one to give you on the job training. Each one of us works on our own until the Alarm goes in, then you respond with the Fire appliance and are met by your crew at the incident. You are the OIC.
When not attending incidents lots of Safety work, Maintenance, delivering Safety training, Safety tours and Audits etc. There is a long list of areas that you have to be qualified in almost from the start of your employment.
Personally I would say if you are a young chap, look to either joining the Whole time fire service, DFS or an Airport fire service. Get some decent training and qualifications behind you from them.
Maybe there's someone else here who could advise you better, I dont know anything about security companies as mention by Mike.
Good luck.
-
Fire Training- many links on this website. Most will tailor training for you when you give them requirements. Try hitting some the search engines with 'fire training'
-
If anyone wishes to question the capability, competence or equipment of industrial fire teams then they are welcome to visit the Wilton International site on Teesside owned by SembCorp Utilities.
You will be surprised by the equipment in use and the competencies of the team.
Well worth a visit.
www.sembprotection.com
-
The question on competency of Industrial fire depts was posed over a year ago, but thanks for e mailing me.
I'd agree that there are plenty of training providers out there, but it doesn't mean every Industrial fire fighter will have received great training. My own company have a very good fire fighting school in America, but none of the fire fighters on my site have ever been there, or ever will. Without investment in their fire depts Companies could see there capabilities etc questioned.
So. Capabilities, Equipment and Competency of Industrial fire fighters will vary, with some trying hard to update their knowledge and Undersatnding continually and those who are just there for the pay. No different to any other employment really.
Glad to hear that things have moved on for you.
-
Ref the guy who was interested in perhaps setting up a web site on Industrial teams - Port of Felixstowe in Suffolk has a small 16 man crew covering 24x7 for fire and medical first responder calls.
PORT FIRE & AMBULANCE SERVICE
Web site = http://www.portoffelixstowe.co.uk/pressreleases/frmPress.aspx?pid=112
and
http://www.portoffelixstowe.co.uk/publications/journal/frmemergencyassistance.aspx
Plus (like other certain ports and the 2 Northern Ireland Airports / and Mersey Tunnels Police ) they have thier own accredited non home office Police with full constabulary powers)
PORT POLICE
http://www.portoffelixstowe.co.uk/PUBLICATIONS/JOURNAL/frmsecurity.aspx
Any others - I'm always interested !! Bring them on !!
-
Also many thanks to Paul for the info on www.sembprotection.com
checked this out but not much info on specific details - could you supply or advise ?
how many stations/pumps/personnel
do you adhere to the rank/new LA type structure
what shifts do you work
how do you recruit ?
do you have agreements with LS services to attend off site etc ?
any private web info/photos ?
Also I understand that as well as yourselves covering the 3 (?) sites on Teesside, that BASF have there own crew near Stockton ? Any details or other sites or companies ?
Cheers !!
-
SembCorp have recently taken over the BASF Emergency Response Team on Teesside.
-
Hi, just thought I'd bring this one to the fore.
I've been a WT Industrial FF for 9 years in a large Petrochemical facility in West Wales. I'm also an RDS Crew Manager with Mid & West Wales FRS.
We operate a 224 shift system comprimising on days of 1 Refinery Chief Fire Officer, 2 WT Shift Fire & Safety Officers (SFSO) supplimented by 4 Auxilliary FF's drawn form the workforce. On nights we have 1 WT SFSO plus 4 auxilliary FFs. The CFO and all WT SFSO's are also on call via pager.
We have 1 x Multi media Tender (Dry Powder, CO2, Water) which is also an RP. 1 x Foam Tender, 1 x ET, 1 x ISU and 1 x Ambulance. We are in the process of having a new MMT built with a delivery date of Dec '07 and are also raising expenditure projects for next year to purchase a HVP and LD hose and an extra 100,000lts of foam.
I along with many of my industrial colleuges was mobilised to Buncefield, were after the fire was extinguished I spent 3 weeks acting as a liasion between my company, Herts FRS a the HSE. The fire was extinguished using the equipment suppplied by the industrial fire services from around the UK. This would not of been possible if it weren't for the Uk FRS HVP's supplying us with the water. However it highlighted the fact the LA FRS's are not equipped or trained to deal with these types of incidents. That is why industry is becoming more self reliant, it has to be! My company along with a neighbouring Refinery are forming a Mutual aid group that will responed to industrail incidents in our area. Between us we have £2,000,000 to spend on new equipment, training etc....
So yes, whilst I agree that in some sections of the industry companies are downsizing and in some cases scrapping there fire teams, there are many companies that with the hindsight of Buncefield, are upgrading there fire protection.
Just to clear up about Teesside, I have been there a ew times and they have a very impressive setup, Probably one of the best Industrial Emergency Response services in the world. They operate 4 fire stations, North Tees, Billingham, Wilton and BASF. They opertae 4 watches, not sure of the manning and have some state of the art kit, including the largest industrial pumper in the world. The 6000gpm E-one 'Liquidator' based at Wilton, shes a beast!
-
Gents I am an instructor at a local authority training centre in the SE. If any of you are local and would like someone to come along one evening and give you some input on RTC; BA, ICS, (i am a qualified tutor in all of these) or any basic firemanship skills I will be happy to oblige (just supply tea and biscuits, lots of tea). Please feel free to contact me.
-
One of the most valuable assets of a good industrial fire team is local and specialist knowledge. The company I work for produces a large range of alkaloids, and during our last annual inspection, the LAFB requested training from our fire team on the management of some reactive chemical hazards.
Even in these days of increasing data availability, a first-attendance crew is unlikely to have sufficient specialist knowledge to be able to deal safely with an incident invloving an unusual chemical or process. A trained and equipped industrial crew (who can, for example, enter an area with BA and help assess the situation) can be invaluable.
-
Hi
I note this forum seems to give Industrial Fire teams loads of stick. I appreciate some Industrial teams are ill trained but thats not their fault, after all they can do is put into practice what they have been trained to do. But not all Industrial teams are the same. I myself work for Jaguar Cars Fire department a whole time station, giving Fire and Ambulance cover to the plant. All the Fire Fighters are either currently retained or ex retained , I have served 12 years in the Fire Service. We are trained to NVQ level 3 in Fire Service Operations, and also trained to FETA standards for extinguishers. And also trained in Pre hospital Trauma Care. We train with WMFS Ambulance and Fire service and all our qualifications are up to date. We provide a professional service for the company 24/7. Doing some 500 to 600 calls a year. I just think sometimes some whole time Fire Fighters can be arrogant, not all, just some, who think they are the only ones who have training and are professional . It’s just not the case guys
-
Andy...
Whats your Dept watch strength and shift pattern?
-
Can I make one suggestion that may be of use to the industrial firefighters. I base this on my own experiences in the airport industry which at the end of the day is still a commercial enterprise where every penny has to be justified albeit that we have prescriptive guidance from our industry's authority.
If there's one thing that always makes an MD smile it's when a member of staff suggests a way of saving money or better still - making it!
At one of the airports I work for we were compelled by the implications of a contract with the MoD to look at protecting not only their assets when on or near the airfield, but also within the buildings including stores and admin blocks. A training needs analysis identified the need for compartment fire training. So two of us went and earned the instructors qualification, then we came back and developed our own FBT unit, which we did at a snip of the cost quoted by a firm that regularly supplies local authorities by purchasing the ISO's direct from Southampton docks and getting a local welder to carry out the mods.
That unit is now being expanded because advertising its presence has raised the interest of the local brigade who don't have their own unit and use it in on a commercial basis (i.e. money coming in to the firm), we are also negotiating with another external commercial enterprise who do offshore firefighter basic training and have exceeded the capacity of their existing location and wish to share our facilities (more money coming in), and we are also able to use the adjacent firepad, classroom facilities and the skills of the crew members to achieve significant strides in applying the ethos of the RRO throughout the company and provide basic fire safety courses for all staff and fire marshal training for those members with that responsibility (as this isn't contracted out; it's money saved!), I have every expectation that by the end of 2008 this facility will also be commercially marketed (more money coming in!!).
My overall message therefore is to think broadly, not just about what you want but how you can get it and how the MD will perceive the overall status of the fire crew when you show him that you can make more than you spend and contribute to company wide efficiency and safety. The next time you need to justify shelling out on new PPE or appliances, you'll get a very different response.
Believe me, the above isn't a utopian dream of mine; I've done it and so far everyone is benefitting.
-
HI i am a ex retained firefighter and a trained security office does anyone know of any companies or sites in the uk recruiting staff for fire and security teams , I am willing to pay for my training to gain employment.
thank you andrew mcgillivray
-
Hi Andy
Vacancies with industrial fire services aren't always readily advertised, however I do see the odd vacancies crop up at www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk - visit the site click on "FIND A JOB", select "SAFETY AND SECURITY" when asked what industry you want to work in and then select "EMERGENCY SERVICES" then "FIRE SERVICE"
Another thing to do is find out which companies have their own fire services - a few have been mentioned here on this thread so thats a starting point - and give them a bell on the off chance that they may have something.
Many industrial fire crews consist of on call workers who do other jobs on site and are called on when required, and those who occupy full time positions tend to be the officers in charge. So you may have to look at going in at that level and looking to see if you have the right skills / training .
The Teeside Emergency Services are I beleive the biggest industrial fire service in the UK. i think they have four stations and have a 4 watch system. So plenty of scope there perhaps?
I dont know if someone on these forums could give you their number (i tried googling Tesside Emergency Services but could find no info)