Author Topic: BA Set Info  (Read 34735 times)

Offline Frankie

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BA Set Info
« on: February 28, 2005, 03:24:04 PM »
Hi,
    I've been set a question, can anyone tell me the maximum allowed weight of a BA set?

The question has been set to me by my leading hand, as I'm a retained recruit who hasn't gone on his BA training i'm not sure where to look for the answer. Can anyone help me?

Offline fireftrm

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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2005, 11:01:49 PM »
IS there one? Never come across this..............

Maybe go back to the LFf and ask them where to find the information - after all his/her role is to develop you and not just send you on a chase alone. I have never come across a maximum, or suggested weight. Indeed the weight of the set was only a concern once composite cylinders came into the UK, prior to that the stell cylinder weighed so much the set weight was basically irrelevant. Sets are available in various materials from metals to plastics and of many weights, the limit would be that that a firefighter could carry on their back! If you find out that there is an actual maximum weight it may be of interest, however I consider that there are far more useful things you copuld be doing with your time. Long gone are the days when firefighters needed to know the weight of things, it is totally irrelevant that a 13.5m ladder weighs around 100kg, as long as we know it takes four to carry it! If four people cannot pick it up it is too heavy, if they can it is OK. Same goes for the technical data of most items we have - learning these used to be part of training - when do we ever need to know that a hydraulic spreader can spread to 632mm (a made up example)? It either spreads enough, or not. I have never taken out a tape measure at an RTA to check! I would never expect such detail, a how it works, what it can do, what it can't, how to fix it - if possible - and a practical demonstration of eac is much better. Please explian the new world, politely, to your LFf and ask for some meaningful development.
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Offline wee brian

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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2005, 09:42:04 PM »
It must be one of the throwbacks to the military. A general purpose machine gun weighs 24pounds!  Why I needed to know that in order to fire it I'll never know.

Offline Frankie

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« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2005, 11:38:06 AM »
I could explain to him that i need "meaningful development" but I could also be running around drilling all night. We basically get set questions from time to time to learn about the job in hand, on my wild goose chase I have learnt things about the BA set's that i didn't know, so I think it is quite a good way of learning about the job. However, there is a European Standard for the maximum weight of a BA set, I am trying to get someone to respond to my emails from the British Standards, the HSE and the European Standards organisations.

If anyone does know what the maximum weight is off the top of their head it would be greatly appreciated.

As a parting shot, I think it encourages FF's to ask questions and seek knowledge.... whilst what I am looking for may not be important, what I learn along the way may be something that one day saves a life....

Deep man....Deep!

Offline fireftrm

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« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2005, 12:14:54 PM »
Umm, I accept your desire for knowledge but seriously doubt the wisdom of the questions being asked. I rather agree with wee brian. The modern fire service should be developing its staff to do the job, not to find out completely useless information. I do agree that there are probably loads of things about BA sets that I don't know, however in 20 years I have never had a reason to know most of what I was taught, let alone need any other information. One of the things that I was taught was the weight of the set (when I first joined - we don't bother with such trivialiity any longer) but was never told what the standard was set at for the maximum weight! The more I think about the more I am convinced that it is not you who needs menaingful development, but your LFf. You should be learning the BA procedures, not useless technical drivel. If he/she thinks about it the technical stuff should be limited to - pressure of set when full, gauge interpretation and some basics about the way the set supplies air to the wearer. No more.

We do teach the pressures in the hoses - such as 6 to 9 bar to the demand valve - however I would strongly argue that such information actually hepls the firefighter to understand zilch. What possible use is such gen? None. The set wioll supply air to the wearer at a pressure that is above that around the outside of the facemask, therefore if you are unfortunate enough to suffer nay leakage from the mask seal then it will be outward. The cylinder should be charged to 300bar and will give you 36 minutes of working time. You should be back at the entry control before that time is up and there is a gauge to show you how much air you have left. This allows you to appreciate the amount you have used so far and to decide upon the safe time to turn around and exit. What more do you need to know?

Whatever your feelings about upsetting the LFf unless he/sheis made to realise the pointlessness of their questions then you, your station and your service will not move forward correctly.


I wholeheartedly support your point about Ffs being encouraged to ask questions, however not of this type. Ask me about procedures, community safety initiatives, operational command, casualty care and more, but DO NOT ask me about the detailed techinical information of anything - I DO NOT CARE. I leave such nonesense to the standards developers, after all they are the manufacturers and make the standards to suit themselves - any maximum weight they make up themselves, not users.
My posts reflect my personal views and beliefs and not those of my employer. If I offend anyone it is usually unintentional, please be kind. If it is intentional I guess it will be clear!

Offline Frankie

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« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2005, 01:29:30 PM »
Ok, but surely someone sent in with a set in excess of the maximum weight is in danger?

I'm sure the Standards Agencies give these levels of guidance for a reason....usually safety?......not because they wish to contribute to the depletion of a rainforest or to act as door-stops....

Offline fireftrm

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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2005, 12:46:41 PM »
Oh please, I think you would know if the set was too heavy when you put it on! A BA set usuaully weighs less than the cylinder attached to it and present composite cylinders weigh less than a third of the original steel, so there is a lot of weigt we can add to the set itself and still be well under the combined weight of those sets. Most services had those sets until the early 90s. Danger form on etoo heavy? Who would go and out and buy sets without trying them first? Not too difficult to discover that they are too heavy to use. Please, oh please, do not try to defend the original pointless question with worse.

As to the standards bodies - most standards do little except add to the depletion of rain forests. Despite what you think they are only there for the manufacturers and they would change such as weights due to changes in their abilities to amnufacture to anew standrard. By so doing the group ensures that they keep the competition in check. Cynical maybe , but I have seen enough standards so written that I understand. A good example is the red body for a fire extinguisher. Yes red is in the European Standard, but nothing prevented the BS comitteee (made up of manufatcurers) from keeping the previous colours here. The remainder of the standard, on construction, could have been implemented and the colour scheme kept. As it was the manufacturer of extinguishers became chealer as they could use the same paint for all production. Think about most standrards and look for some real reasons............
My posts reflect my personal views and beliefs and not those of my employer. If I offend anyone it is usually unintentional, please be kind. If it is intentional I guess it will be clear!

Offline Billy

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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2005, 08:13:31 PM »
I totally agree with the above.
What is the point of knowing the maximum weight of a BA set?
If it is too heavy, we won't use it- simple!
I thought these days were long gone and I once remember a perfect analogy of a senior officer talking to a pump operator and saying " all you need to know is that if you stand on the outlet hose and it is soft- you better know what the problem is and be able to fix it!"

Offline dave bev

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« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2005, 11:22:08 AM »
i like useless information. i have lots of it. if anyone wants to swap any please state what it is you have and what you wish to swap for?

perhaps we should have e new category on the site aswell?

dave bev

Offline wee brian

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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2005, 10:29:26 PM »
I must admit that I would like to know what the max weight of a BA set is.

Offline fireftrm

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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2005, 05:44:37 PM »
I'd like to know the maximum weight of a firefighter - now there is an interesting thought.............................


And to Dave Bev - yes please let's campaign for a "Totally useless and pointless" section, I think there may be many takers!


Billy - thanks for some more sense in this thread.
My posts reflect my personal views and beliefs and not those of my employer. If I offend anyone it is usually unintentional, please be kind. If it is intentional I guess it will be clear!

TRAINER

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« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2005, 10:32:39 AM »
The maximum weight of a standard duration BA set is 18kgs and is laid down in BS EN137

Offline fireftrm

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« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2005, 12:37:47 PM »
Fascinating and incredibly useful, must remember to weigh each set!
My posts reflect my personal views and beliefs and not those of my employer. If I offend anyone it is usually unintentional, please be kind. If it is intentional I guess it will be clear!

Offline dave bev

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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2005, 02:29:21 PM »
trainer is the british standard a compulsory standard or guidance - does it include 'extra bits' - what about extended duration.

more useful information -
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Offline Frankie

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« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2005, 03:21:11 PM »
fireftrm - I apologise if i have offended you, I don't think i'll bother posting on here to ask advice again. you seem to have not an awful lot better to do than spend your time ridiculing questions asked by "juniors" (and by "juniors" i mean people with less experience).

Pointless it may be...... bothered? I am not.

Thanks Trainer for your help, much appreciated.