BA searching using modern technology

[mattie]

As a ff i think it's about time that technology caught up with the fire service. You know the government want us 'modernised' after all.

By this I mean not sending ff into an alien enviroment, either free searching or on a piece on line 6o metres long with little tabs hanging off!

Modern technology is capable of pioneering a design whereby the  BA team leader is fitted with a tracker device that can be sensed by BAECO so he is happy of where the team is, and also the BA team in the job have a GPS type system to allow their movement to be tracked so that when it comes to turn around or egress they are given clear direction.(afterall the by the book way states you must leave through the same BAECO you entered through)

Jets, cars and even hand held GPS systems can be bought cheaply now so what excuses are there?

Having the above technology would allow the ff to concentrate on the job in hand.....search and rescue and allow him/her to firefight and pay more attention to  dynamic risk assessment.

Please post your comments.

[Andy Cole]

Is a GPS system precise enough to tell you which way to crawl through a room or which door to take? this would be my main concern with it, I am a little ignorant of exactly how these things work but if it's anthing like the Sat Nav you can get in cars it might end up being alot of trouble!?! (wouldn't mind the sexy voice telling me which way to go mind you!).

When I did my final training (Summer '04) there was a Brigade piloting a new type of BA board which was able to give both wearer and BAECO far more information than they had previously had whether or not it was able to give location I cannot be sure, I think it was either Gloustershire FRS or Avon FRS.

[fireftrm]

Andy

NI and NFRS have the Draeger Merlin Telmetry board - the details are on http://www.draeger.com/ST/internet/US/en/Products/Protection/Equip_Monitor/BAControl/PSSMerlin/pd_pss_merlin.jsp

GPS would be no good for searching/identifyimng crew positions inside a building as a GPS requires a clear view of the sky - the proof being in the need to have satellite dishes on the OUTSIDE to receive.  I have no doubt there are location beacons that will do this in some military/intelligence spheres, but not yet commercially to my knowledge - the only personal location beacons being ones for outdoor use and to a GPS accuracy of 100m, of little use in finding someone in abuilding.

Mattie - even accepting that GPS can't do this there are still more than enough tools available (PPV being the most obvious) that mean we should not have to consider the string.

[mattie]

NI and NFRS have the Draeger Merlin Telmetry board - the details are on http://www.draeger.com/ST/internet/US/e ... merlin.jsp

As highlighted by member fireftrm the above board looks good and is a shame the english fire sevices don't have them too.

What I was trying to say was that I am sure there is the technology out there that can be used to improve the roles of the modern day ff.

We are NOT allowed to use PPV as a form of search tool. Our PPV can only be used once a fire is safely extinguished, known as defensive tactical ventilation.

[Paul]

Offemsive ventilation is now becoming common within  most of the NW FRS.  I have seen the effects and to be honest it almost does away with BA.  The effects are breathtaking.

Obviously there are fine lines to consider in not providing enough ventialtion to cause a backdraught but if used correctly...............its the future.......never mind garlic bread!!

[Andy Cole]

That is the board I was talking about I know tht it has been trialed over here as I say with either GFRS or AFRS (not sure which) looks like a pretty good bit of kit and I wouldn't be surprised if we see more of it over here.

[Lee999]

Telemetry has been available for a decade, I was aware that Northern Ireland were using it, but also that dregear had given to them at cost. (the same way they gave Lincolnshire those funny little bubble type BA sets a few years ago)

The reason all FRS's dont use it is simple - cost.

A word of caution, adding too much technology will make the job more complex.

[fireftrm]

Mattie - we pride ourselves, here in NFRS, in being English - despite the southerners maybe thinking otherwise. Indeed we are the second largest, in terms of land area covered, English FRS.

You may not be allowed to use PPV that way - but that is not true of the British FRS, just yours - campaign!

[mattie]

Not a bad idea. I will have to get the ball rolling. I know of certain instructors who have been to various other counties etc and they have seen it used offensively. They seem to like it too but for now I suppose we shall have to settle for pulling it off at the end of the job.

If any current fire service members are online please give me an idea of who is and isn't using PPV offensively. I serve with Herts and they are for defensive use only

Thanks guys/gals for your comments

[fireftrm]

Tyne and Wear - offensive

[Paul]

Cheshire GMC and Lancs - Offensive

[Billy]

In relation to Telemetry- I think it costs (or used to cost) about £12,000 and it may be hard to justify on all appliances for this reason.

[rips]

Tyne & Wear Offensive. Theye also run a Tactical Ventilation Instructors course, which includes practical scenarios using PPV in realistic offensive situations.