Places of Assembly

[GB]

I am looking at an old church building in Scotland with an average occupancy of 150 and a maximum capacity of 200.

Analysing the building with current benchmark standards using Places of Assembly and similar premises by Safer Scotland, the property should be fitted with a category L2 fire alarm system - using BS 9999:2008, with an occupancy characteristic from Table 5 of B2, the system required is only a manual system as within Table 8.

This is quite a difference in requirement, despite the risk reduction, fire safety management and emergency action plans being required to the same standard in both.

Thoughts?

[John Webb]

Most of the advice on 'Places of Public Assembly' is aimed at buildings which are likely to have members of the public in who do not know the building, such as nightclubs, bars and the like. These buildings will be divided into numerous rooms and storage areas and so do require detectors and other precautions to protect escape routes.

But churches are, in general, a large single volume open building in which any fire would be be seen quickly by the occupants and would be unlikely to hamper their escape. In addition the occupants are likely to be familiar with the building and its exits.

In my opinion it is not necessary for a church to have either a manual fire alarm system or one to L2 or any other designation under BS 5839 unless the FRA indicates that there are circumstances which require it, for example regular public concerts or many funerals and weddings when there may be many visitors present or where a particular hazard exists.

The IFE Heritage Special Interest Group spotted the problems in the advice about Assembly Buildings, particularly when applied to listed church buildings, and has been working on better guidance for churches since its formation three years ago; it is hoped we will be publishing the advice in the not too distant future!

[GB]

I appreciate your comments where buildings are simple, single storey, occupied with people familiar with the layout and predominantly open space, however we are talking about buildings where childrens work is going with parents seperated from their offspring; prayer rooms etc that may be occupied when the building is otherwise empty, times of worship that may be in excess of 80dBa - to have as you suggested no fire alarm, let alone what current standards are suggesting would invoke quite a response from the enforcing authority I would have thought?

[nearlythere]

But they are not all like you describe and, as John says, if they are mostly open plan type, which is common in small towns and rural areas, would there be any advanatge of a system when nearly all of the occupants would be aware of a fire starting anyway. Remember what a fire alarm system is for. I have done many churches and they range from small one or two room affairs with a seperate church hall to multi room situations having rooms as you describe when a fire alarm system may well be needed for the purpose one is intended for.

I have also had many situations where there is only one door serving a capacity of 300 odd people in so old a building that one would think that the first smack with a sledge making an additional doorway in a 1/2M thick stone wall might bring the whole lot down.

[John Webb]

GB - I did qualify my statement by saying that the FRA of the building would show what was wanted. In the conditions you state then I certainly would have some form of fire alarm system.

Indeed, my own church has an attached parish centre where the sort of activity you describe regularly takes place as well as a pre-school group who hire the centre 5 days a week and other regular and casual hirers. So we have an L5 system to BS5839 to give the necessary warning to our worshippers and other users.