Extinguishers in Domestic Property

[Gel]

There are easy action extinguishers, where's there in fact is no pin to remove.

They are ABC rated and have buttons numbered 1 & 2; pressing "1" breaks trigger guard.

See
http://www.kiddefyrnetics.co.uk/utcfs/Templates/Pages/Template-54/0,8063,pageId%3D4344%26siteId%3D405,00.html

They are not serviceable.

[Tom Sutton]

Conqueror
Sorry I did respond to your question but it appears to have disappeared in the ether, it was from a landlord.

Thanks to everybody else who responded and I decided the provision of FFE was the better solution, a domestic fire blanket as a minimum supplemented with a 2kg dry powder, an ideal. Water is always available from the domestic supply.

[Martin Burford]

tws

Maybe treat what the landlord said with caution.........Obvious approach to provide 1xm2 blanket.. quite sufficient in the living units......not a fan of dry powder!!.............CO2 for me.
Conqueror

[Tom Sutton]

Conqueror

I treat all information with caution no matter who supplies it but I do know some fso`s are a little dogmatic and some frs are too afraid of litigation they will not trust the ability of their staff.
I agree with you regarding the fire blanket but if additional extinguisher is asked for I would still go for dry powder because you are able to purchase ones that do not require maintenance and expense.

[jokar]

Messy and Chris,

all is fine unless you are asleep.  When you wake up to a fire what are your choices, get out or play firefighter and perhaps put others at risk.  Please don't assume that all fires occur during daylight hours or that even in daylight people are not asleep.  Basic advice first, get out!!!  Extinguishers are only as good as those who know their limitations and how to use them.  Better to be safe as far as life safety is concerned and worry about the propery later.

[AnthonyB]

There are easy action extinguishers, where's there in fact is no pin to remove.

They are ABC rated and have buttons numbered 1 & 2; pressing "1" breaks trigger guard.

See
http://www.kiddefyrnetics.co.uk/utcfs/Templates/Pages/Template-54/0,8063,pageId%3D4344%26siteId%3D405,00.html

They are not serviceable.

Actually the Kidde extinguisher you feature is not new, it is in fact a 30 year old design and nothing to do with the US or Kidde - & it is most definately servicable and refillable!

Its actually the German Gloria 'F' series.

Kidde were in the wilderness in the UK market when their involvement with Thorn (KiddeThorn, was Thorn security) & TG ended in the late 90's when Chubb's parent bought them up. To re-enter the UK/Euro portables market Kidde bought out Gloria to have an established EU manufacturer and foot in the door of the trade market & took over longstanding indpendent Fire Protection Services (FPS, now KiddeFPS) to jump straight into the top 5 national end user PFE companies

I digress..........

Fire blanket, no arguement & have had this implented in rental properties, extinguisher, more pros & cons, but a maintenance free ABC is the best option.

Extinguishers used to be popular in larger homes - look at literature from the 30's anda lot of houses had Minimax or Konus Kemick soda Acid extinguishers, which were also made in different colours and finished to match the house decor!

[Chris Houston]

Messy and Chris,

all is fine unless you are asleep.  When you wake up to a fire what are your choices, get out or play firefighter and perhaps put others at risk.  Please don't assume that all fires occur during daylight hours or that even in daylight people are not asleep.  Basic advice first, get out!!!  Extinguishers are only as good as those who know their limitations and how to use them.  Better to be safe as far as life safety is concerned and worry about the propery later.

My friend,

I am not sugesting we dicate to people what they ought to do.  Only that they be given the choice.  When the wake, the may find their route blocked.  They may find themsleves in the situation that most (90%) of those who extinguish the fires in the UK are.  They may chose to try to put out the little fire (as all fires start as little fires) and if they do, I hope that their landlords had the gumption to provide thme with a choice.

If they want to, they can run away no one (please note this important point) is asking anyone to take unnecesary risks, just that our people have the choice.

[TallyHo]

As a matter of interest

For those who think that an extinguisher is a good idea, why do you prefer Powder as opposed to a 2L Foam Spray?

[AnthonyB]

Quick knockdown, weight for weight higher fire fighting capacity, very little you can't use it on safely in a house (electricity) other than chip pans, cheap & readily available, can be obtained as maintenance free.

Foam damn good on Class A, better security on Class B but only if contained and you are trained, not the wisest thing near electrics regardless of the 35kV test 'spin'  (if its so good then put the electrically safe icon on your extinguishers, but manufacturers don't)

You could argue of course that the only fires you would tackle are a chip pan and electrical fire confined to apparatus of origin as a class A fire would be too deepseated and smoky & thus put a fire blanket & CO2 in the home

[John Webb]

Having seen both DP and CO2 used by untrained people on fires, I'd go for DP despite the awful mess it makes. With CO2 in untrained hands the tendency is to get too close to the fire and blast it all over the place. The noise factor is also something to take into account - many do not realise how much noise emerges when a CO2 is operated and I've seen people drop them in surprise!

The main problem with the foam spray on electrics is the formation of a continuous pool in or near the equipment - but if the electrics are protected by sensitive (ie 30mA) RCDs, any leakage of current due to this should cut off the power before there is a significant danger.

[Pip]

not to mention cold burns as well.its all down to training!(or lack of it).

[John Webb]

Well, we had to avoid allowing people to actually hurt themselves, so they were told not to hold the discharge horn. But it was noticable that when most people picked up a CO2 extinguisher they usually put one hand on the horn. (This was part of an exercise when newcomers to the Fire Research Station were taken into one of our labs with a chip-pan size liquid fuel fire burning and asked to put it out. I hasten to add they were then shown how to do it properly!)

[AnthonyB]

Keep up with the times! Frost free horns are increasingly standard on CO2's now & certainly the new 1 kilo model reintroduced this year has one.

The points over CO2 v DP raised above are valid, we have a health warning for practical training courses, not necessarily from the risks from the live fire side, but so we don't have heart attacks when first blasting off a CO2 in the classroom.

The AFFF v electrics debate is interesting, but there are too many 'shoulds' 'buts' & 'if's' involved hence why no manufacturer dare put the electrically safe icon on and so where a direct electrical risk is involved always put in CO2 (1st choice) or Powder (2nd choice unless associated risks require it). Yes British Rail chanced it to half the number of extinguishers required when phasing out Halon & their end of life waters, but in most of those buildings now we have required the retrofit of CO2 with no complaints from those holding the purse strings

[John Webb]

Glad to hear that frost-free horns are more widely available on the smaller sizes.

London Underground were seeking opinions some time ago about replacing water with AFFF spray. They of course had the problem of 650V DC hanging around rather than the 230V AC. I'm not aware what their final decision was; can any one tell us?

[Firewolf]

We recommend that extinguishers are not provided in Hostels , HIMO's and other rented accomodation for various reasons. We do recommend a fire blanket is provided.

I have read with great interest some of the comments here, and have to say there is a great argument for and against providing extinguishers in these types of premises.

The Local Authority is the lead authority for enforcing standards in these dwellings and as such will sometimes seek advice from the Fire Authority.

It has to be remembered that if you provided extinguishers you should really provide training on their use - im thinking about litigation here rather than any form of legislation.

Extinguishers can be dangerous to someone who doesn't know how to use them properly, and as already stated elsewhere in this thread the cost for a landlord to provide training on a high turnover of tenants coupled with the fact that the tennants themselves probably wouldnt want training (ie would have to take time out of the personal life to attend) would make it extremely impractical.

To answer some of the questions people raised about letting the fire grow by not tackling it and that it could then potentially affecting other residents I would argue that the fire precautions in the premises should be up to a standard as to offer adequate protection. Ie Fire rsistance, fire detetcion etc etc.

The argument that an extinguisher should be provided in case means of escape became blocked is a contencious one, and one I couldn't argue with. However many people do state that there should never be a situation where the means of escape should be blocked (ie fire precautions should be built in to avoid this situation bearing in mind the intended users or occupiers of the building).