Can you help meguys and Girls

[Guest]

Hi folks

To cut a long story short our organisation has sold of some land to another firm who are constructing a brand new building on it. Part of our conditions of selling them the land was that they incorporated our nursery and creche facilities in their new building and that we would have a joint nursery between both organisations.

The proposed new nursery is on the first floor of the new building. With over 60 children ranged between 3 months to 8 years old potentially going to use the facilities we feel that a first floor location is ludicrous particularly as staff will have to evacuate these young children down a flight of stairs to safety.

Obviously the building layout will have gone through planning control and has been accepted as being ok by them and the brigade.

But does anyone have any suggestions on how to evacuate 60 kids with just 10 members of staff down a flight of stairs.

Ive looked into evacuation cots but having searched the internet cant find a supplier!

Can anyone help?

Best wishes!

[Simon Morriss]

I agree with you that a facility not on the ground floor is asking for trouble.  Although I can't help specifically contact this company who must be about the biggest in the uk for child care.

http://www.nordanglia.com/

I would be interested in the response.

Simon

[Guest]

Hi Simon

Thanks for that

unfortunately they said they cant really get involved. Said it was down to the local authorty planning dept , fire authority and also OFSTED to thrash out lol

Never mind worth a try anyway. So cheers!

[Chris Houston]

I have two suggestions, both of which fall outside my areas of expertise, but perhaps others can add some meat to the bones:

Disability Discrimination Act: Is the facility suitable for wheelchair users?  Stairs alone might be difficult for them.

Fire Risk Assessment: Has one been done, does it consider the special needs of the occupants?

[Guest]

Yep good points chris both of which we have considered stongly. Unfortunately however we have a situation whereby its not our building and therefore have no direct control over it.

DOes anyone know of any evacuation cots and where to get hold of them

[Guest]

The creche or nursery should be on the ground floor. There is guidance on this, I dont know the type of building being talked about but 5588 Part 11 and 6 makes comment on the subject.
Its about things like the comfort factor of knowing that your children are in an area that has an exit to open air if you are in a different part of the building.
Ask yourself this...how comfortable would you feel if your children were in a remote part of a building, on an upper floor with maybe no direct access to an escape stair. And nowhere near you when the fire alarm operates.
And in this case in a different building.
Dont be looking for evacuation cots....look for properly designed facilities.
Like on the ground floor with direct access to open air.
It can even be in a basement provided there is direct access to open air.

[AnthonyB]

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This may sound daft, but you could get the older children out quickly with minimal staffing by making "fire drill" into a game (educates, removes panic & allows practice) With an adult at the front and back the kids could be taught to form a "conga" line down the stairs (but in a careful manner!). By involving the older kids in this way and practicing in advance of the event you can leave the majority of the staff free for the really young.

For the babies, why not ask your local hospital's fire officer as to how they would evacuate them if the need should arise.


Of course you shouldn't have accepted the first floor in the first place and your land deal should have been more specific, but it's too late for that.

[Guest]

Hi ANthony B

I absolutely agree with you the plans never should have been accepted - unfortunately as ever myself being the fire officer is always last to know about any proposals despite constant reminders to my colleagues that my input at the start of a project is essential (lol)!!!

But yes Some good points from everyone - especially making a  fire drill a game - very very helpful so thanks for that.

[Simon Morriss]

Firewolf

I hope you get this as it is rather a long time since you opened this forum.

I have found a bit of info that might help.  The inquiry in to the Summerland Centre fire in August 1973 foound that parents were going into the building to get their children who were being looked after by a thrid party.  The recommendation from the report was to have their accomodation at or as near to ground level as practicable.

If you need more info drop me a personal message

Simon

[Ken Taylor]

Is there a lift that could be upgraded for use in a fire situation under management control?

[Guest]

Chiltern International Fire did some research on the evacuation / rescue of children from 'soft' play areas - more difficult than a creche.  Could try giving them a call.  01494 569800.

[Guest]

fire service circular re fire saftey of indoor areas.

36-2004 | Fire and Rescue Service Circular | 1
Fire and Rescue Service Circular
Circular number 36-2004 Date issued 13 September 2004
This circular is For guidance No response required
This circular is Not relevant to the National Framework
Status Contains information on the fire safety and operational issues emerging from
recently completed research into the fire safety of indoor play areas.
Fire Safety of Indoor Play Areas
Issued by:
Darren Hobbs
Buildings Division
ODPM
Addressed to: Please forward to:
The Chief Fire Officer (England and Wales) Fire safety and operational staff
Summary
Fire Safety in Indoor Play Areas - published research.
This Circular draws the attention of Chief Fire Officers to recently completed
research which considers the fire risks associated with Indoor Play Areas, and
the challenges that operators and fire crews may face when responding to a
fire involving such a facility.
Two copies of a CD-Rom containing the research outputs, including a
Quantified Fire Risk Assessment Methodology specifically developed for
Indoor Play Areas, will be sent by mail with an accompanying letter.
For further information, contact:
Direct line 020 7944 2932
Fax 020 7944 5739
E-mail darren.hobbs@odpm.gsi.gov.uk
Darren Hobbs
Buildings Division
ODPM
18/A Portland House
Stag Place
London
SW1E 5LP
General helpline 020 7944 6858 Website www.odpm.gov.uk

[wee brian]

I'm sure Darren will really thank you for putting his phone number on the web.

[Guest]

wee b - i understand your comment but the contact numbers etc are actually part of the document (Fire Service Circular) and is therefore readily available to anyone who gets a copy of the document, so im not too concerned. i also would like to believe that anyone who does want to gain info would be able to do so via odpm and use the given numbers for genuine reasons.

i would also add that this is not his personal or private number it is an odpm number ie work number, so, again i dont see a problem, unless im missing something?

dave bev

[wee brian]

Dave

Put your E Mail adress on the web and when youve got 200 emails from some bloke in Nigeria trying to "transfer money to the UK" you will understand.

Spammers have programmes that find this stuff automatically.

Perhaps our moderator could intervene?