Manual Call Points

[Simon Morriss]

I need a bit of help.

Is there any bit of legislation or standards that will allow an establishment not to install manual call points.

Before you all get up in arms the question stems from buildings that have a high level of occupancy as well as highly trained staff and is backed up with automatic detection to L1/P1 standard.

Simon

[Chris Houston]

A fire detection and alarm system designed to L1 will have call points throughout.

Your building might well be full of people and staff, but how can they let everyone know of a fire if there are no call points?

(No, they can't use their radios or telephones, because they are no where near as fail safe as a fire detection and alarm system.)

I think the simple answer is "no" you need them.  But ultimatly, you could do a fire safety risk asessment and try and justify otherwise, but I can't imagine a competant person could jusify this.  

In some scenarios, shopping centre etc, you might be able to put them in alternative locations than they would normaly be.

[colin todd]

As always the rt learned christopher is right. It is usually a matter of selective siting if there really is a prob.

[wee brian]

In the past I have moved them to areas where trained staff are working - Behind the bar in a pub rather than by the way out. This reduces the risk of malicious operation.

The installers certificate will have to record this as a variation from the code.

[AnthonyB]

In one of the leisure complexes we deal with all the individual units have break glass units behind the bars, in kitchens and on means of escape not accessed by the public except during evac.

The covered street linkning them all together has call points that are key operated, with all guards having the key, plus detectors, beams ,CCTV etc.

A small shopping centre has removed call points to the mall totally, but has AFD CCTV and you are never more than 1 metre from a breakglass at the front of a shop unit.

WE've advocated covers before as well, but usually require this to be coupled with extra staff training, good signage and it is marked as a variation on the system paperwork