How to identify the different types of detector

[Davo]

Following the Profs comments on another thread, I would agree that in nearly all cases it is impossible to identify detectors.
We have the following types in manufacturers bumpf

Ionisation Smoke
Optical Smoke
Optical
Rate of Rise Heat
Fixed Temp Heat 56/64/84 degrees (Protec)
Fixed Temp Heat 60/65/75 to EN54 Grades 1-3 (Apollo), also Ranges 1 & 2 80/100 degrees (series60)
Dual Rate of rise/fixed

I have recently seen some new HDs fitted in our premises marked with a 90 label in the centre but no obvious manufacturers label!

I have also seen some with a yellow or a red spot in the centre. I assume these are colour coded but agin no obvious ID


If the Prof is having difficulty I have no chance unless manufacturers give me a clue!!

[Thomas Brookes]

If you just take out the detector head out of the base and look on the rear of it it will tell you what it is. Just make sure you know how to reset the fire panel and speak to the owner first.

[Ashley Wood]

would the '90' not be apollo's series 90?

[Galeon]

Apollo , ions have dark red led , and the optical are more lighter in colour

[Wiz]

would the '90' not be apollo's series 90?

It is more likely that it indicates that the detector is a 90 degree C heat detector

[Midland Retty]

It is difficult these days to identify different types of heads.

Perhaps a "universal" ID marking system would be handy

[AnthonyB]

Coloured dots on AFD are usually part of the servicing system with some contractors to identify which quarter they were tested on so that all in a building are checked within the 12 month cycle

[Wiz]

Apollo use 'coloured dots' to aid identification of various models in a range. These are normally placed centrally on the part of the detector that hangs down the furtherest from the ceiling and these Apollo dots/labels normally have a 'metallised' finish.
Most fire alarm engineers can immediately identify manufacturer/range from the appearance of the detector and the actual range version from the 'coloured dot' / colour of LED / markings on case. Failing that they do what Thomas Brookes suggested above and unplug them and read the information from the label on the detector base!

[kurnal]

Theres rate of rise and fixed temperature detectors and also detectors with  combinations of the two, where theres both a fixed temperature and rate of rise element in a detector  does the temperature rating alter the rate of rise settings?

I know there are general rules such as "do not use rate of rise in a room where temperature fluctuations regularly occur" such as kitchens, , and furthermore that EN54-5 covers also response times for heat detectors, bringing in another variable- speed of response expressed as a class eg A1. Faster detectors are needed where there is a higher ceiling. Now in practical terms is the 60, 65, 75 variable really all about speed of response rather than the temperature?

Where will we find universal guidance recommending factors to consider in selecting say a 60 degree unit over a 65 degree unit?

I know high temperature units are usually recommended for kitchens and boiler rooms- say 80 or 85 degrees.

But in all honesty I could not recognise one from the other and dont have time to pull them down and look during a fire risk assessment.

Thank goodness for analogue- cos I cant access the engineer settings to worry about what state an analogue detector is set to- or perhaps I should?

[Graeme]

http://www.apollo-fire.co.uk/editpics/202-1.pdf


see page 10

[kurnal]

Hi Thomas
Its all a question of what level of knowledge is required to carry out a fire risk assessment with a reasonable degree of competence. Everyone will have their own ideas and lets not lose sight of the fact that the Fire Safety Order defines the "General Fire precautions" and places the duty on the Responsible Person (RP) to ccarry out the assessment, and to engage competent assistance if necessary. The intention of the Law is that the RP dhould be able to carry out an assessment in most cases without specialist knowledge or assistance.

The field of knowledge necessary to be absolutely competent in all areas is too broad- we each have our own strengths and weaknesses. The HSE assist us by defining the term "competent person" to some extent and guides us that to be competent it is essential to recognise the limits of your own competewnce and not to try to step outside the boundaries. The IFE recognise this also be defining  different disciplines in their register of assessors. In the same way if you go into hospital with a dodgy knee a heart murmer and a hearing disorder you will see three different specialists.

I agree with you that many of us do not have sufficient all round knowledge to be a specialist in all areas. But there is a role for the GP in the health service and a key need for a similar level in fire safety- someone with a general knowledge of all systems and how they should alll work together in concert under the heading of general fire precautions.

These practicioners should have sufficient knowledge to identify where weaknesses in one area can impact on another - eg sprinklers, ventilation, fire loading, ignition sources, fire detection and alarm, emergency procedures etc to the extent of recognising a problem but not necessarily designing the solution - instead seaking specialist support within that discipline. I see nothing wrong with that.

I do not follow your logic in the need to identify individual heat detector characteristics by removing them during an assessment.  Even fire alarm specialists tend to concentrate on one or two different manufacturers. If it is an essential element of an assessment it follows that it should also be carried out on analogue addressable systems- and can only then be determined by knowing the engineering password, the software of the system and the presentation of the configuration data- and I have seen many specialist engineers scratching their heads on that one.

[AnthonyB]

It would be difficult to know everything in massive depth, there is too much to know, we work on everyone having a suitable core of knowledge, but each assessor specialising to a massive depth in a different area so we always have someone in the office for special jobs or if we get stuck. The important thing is being able to recognise an unusual situation and admit you require subject specialist help rather than guess or bluff it.

I think regular visitors to the site can guess the area I specialise in....

[Clevelandfire]

Because there are so many different detector makes out there its nearly impossible to get a list of what detectors are what temp.

And although I apriciate that lots of you are not happy with taking detectors down to have a look what type they are or do not have the time during a risk assessment (not sure what "dont have enough time"  means, as a risk assessment should take as long as it should take, Ie one may take an hour another may take all day.). Any way another way around this if you are not competent in fire alarms is for you to do a list of what temp detector should be in the different rooms and contain that within your report for the customers fire alarm maintenance company to check next time they are there.

This is an area that troubles me greatly, and recently I emailed the IFE about this asking why they do not insist on the people of their Fire Risk Assessment Register have greater competency with fire alarms, Extinguishers, Emergency lighting sprinklers fixed systems etc. They did not even respond.
Surely under the RRFSO to carry out any fire assessments you should be a competent person in the field you are working, am I the only one who feels that Fire Alarms, extinguishers, emerg lighting etc etc are all part of a fire risk assessment and indepth knowledge is required to be doing the job.

Well congratulations thats great . Im obviously not competent on fire alarms thank you.

Im so sorry for not knowing every last model from every last manufacturer out there. Perhaps I'm incompetent and have the time to go and look at every detector in say a hospital where they have hundreds of them. Im sure the hospital trust would love to pay me the time to go have a look at them.

Would you care to enlighten us on how qualified you are and how many courses, experience would be required to do what you suggest

Are you saying on this forum the IFE's register of assessors is no good? Can you confirm that please ? is that what you are saying? Can you also then private message me with you contact details so the I can ask the IFE can respond.

Can you answer Kurnals response that you cant tell with combined detectors? or sorry should kurnal be spending less time on here and getting off more detectors to check?

Why on earth in the name of sanity would it be hard for all manufacturers to come up with a UNIVERSAL  system of identification and save us all alot of time and hassle or sitting on fire alarm engineer courses as thomas implies?

[AnthonyB]

Even if I wanted to take every head down to check it, no client would pay for the time it would take to do so!

Which is why we always ask as part of an FRA for a schedule of devices to be held on site, a print off of addresses from a system makes it easy to get an overview of coverage, interfaces and device types around a site.

[kurnal]

I went on ADT website, guess what, no pictures or catalogue or technical brochure

davo
getting more and more confused

Hi Davo- if you have a piccy I have an ADT system designers handbook that may just match up- no promises but worth a try