Author Topic: Business Help  (Read 7213 times)

Offline Mason567

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Business Help
« on: March 28, 2011, 11:26:40 PM »
Hi, i wasnt quite sure where to post this so put it here as it is mainly a question, apologies if its in the wrong area.

I am based in the UK and am wanting to set up my own fire extinguisher rental and annual servicing company within my local area.
What would i need initially to start, is it just the servicing qualification from the FIA?? (linked below)

With that course achieved could i technically start trading as a rental and servicing company? I would then like to move on to alarm panels etc to further my product range.

http://www.fia.uk.com/en/Training/Details/index.cfm/trainingid/4AF0C1EA-008F-473A-9E7DFA8868DCCFDA

Thanks in advance.

Offline kurnal

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Re: Business Help
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2011, 09:03:25 AM »
The FIA course would be an excellent foundation for your portable extinguisher business. Portables are straightforward but as you are no doubt aware its an extremely competitive field with the market flooded with cheap internet sales much of which is rubbish.

Moving into alarms is a different matter especially if you are thinking of selling to the end user and having to design alarm systems?  Or are you looking at wholesale?

Have you also spoken to Business Link about the business management courses they offer?

Offline Mason567

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Re: Business Help
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2011, 11:59:08 AM »
Thanks, I was thinking more of the servicing side of existing panels, but focusing mainly on the renatal and servicing of the portables and fire assessments, but its just the lengthy existing contracts that businesses will already be in is the downside ! :(

Offline kurnal

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Re: Business Help
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2011, 12:29:51 PM »
Are you starting from scratch in all areas- portables, fire risk assessments and alarm maintenance? Or do you have prior knowledge and experience in any of these fields?

It would be a very big ask of anyone, all are specialisms in their own right. The portables field is the most straightforward point from which to start.


Offline Mason567

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Re: Business Help
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2011, 12:38:46 PM »
Technically yes, iv been on a fire safety course and used the portables but thats as far as it goes!
Yeah ideally portables and risk assessment first to start off with.
Id like to think i could compete with the larger companies/their infrastructure on the rental/servicing side. I take it they charge per month per extinguisher? and this includes an annual service? (for the all inclusive package, with small parts replaced) Iv heard the average is around £11-12 per portable (depending on type) would this be correct?
Thanks again.

Offline kurnal

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Re: Business Help
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2011, 01:05:31 PM »
We cannot discuss pricing on the forum. Such discussions would breach Competition Law.

It worries me that you have not asked about the competence needed to become a fire risk assessor.

Offline Mason567

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Re: Business Help
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2011, 01:14:51 PM »
Oh right, i apoligise for my previous price reference.
Iv vistied the FIA and it seems Unit 9 would give me the competence needed for fire assesment, (or at least an initial understanding) would i be right in thinking this?
Thanks

Offline kurnal

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Re: Business Help
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2011, 02:02:17 PM »
No the level 9 course is not intended for this purpose, it is aimed at fire alarm engineers to give them an overview of the Fire Safety Order and the implications of the risk assessment when considering appropriate fire alarm categories of system.

You would do well to look at the IFE website and see the list of accredited courses for fire risk assessors. Many of them require some underpinning knowledge of the management of Health and Safety  at work and the concepts of risk assessment. IOSH and NEBOSH offer courses in this field.

There are also some fundamental areas of knowledge in respect of the design, construction, layout and use of buildings - otherwise as a fire risk assessor you would not have a benchmark against which to judge what you are looking at.

Examples of documents that set out such benchmarks include the Building Regulations Approved Document B, BS9999 and BS5588 part 1 for flats.


Offline deaconj999

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Re: Business Help
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2011, 05:46:29 PM »
Ambitious, but competence comes with experience not just qualifications.

Offline Psuedonym

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Re: Business Help
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2011, 01:39:39 PM »
Is this thread from a bored, lonely, mickey taker,  just out to try to gain a few prices from the competition? End of my input.
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Offline Karissa

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Re: Business Help
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2011, 01:54:54 PM »
I wouldn't want my fire risk assessment done by someone who also provides extinguishers.... ;)

Offline Mason567

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Re: Business Help
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2011, 10:49:22 PM »
Thanks for the constructive input Karissa and Kurnal..

Lots to take in at the mo but enjoying learning all about it! Thanks again for the help and being patient with a noob! :)

Offline AnthonyB

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Re: Business Help
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2011, 03:25:29 PM »
Very little long term rental of extinguishers occurs these days as most enlightened users have worked out that it is a con, for which they could afford to buy a new extinguisher every year instead.

Most rental is short term, particularly at events (and some of the utter junk some extinguisher companies rent out from their condemned piles astounds me!) and is an add on service, not the bread and butter.

There is a lot to being competent in the extinguisher trade (which sadly to few people are these days) it's not just having set off a few and then done the (increasingly short) trade body courses which actually aren't themselves complete and misses out several important things (I've had people who have done these recently that I've had to teach how to recharge stored pressure extinguishers step by step as they didn't go anywhere near an N2 cylinder, adapters, etc on their course, not even on paper!)

Then there is the investment in the correct tools, testing equipment and full set of spares to do the job properly.

A large number of people who set up the better independent firms have done their time (& training and experience) with a large national first and that's the best way to enter the industry unless you want to be a rag & tagger (the lowest of the low).

Fire Alarms are another area where you can easily mess up with a little knowledge as sparkies keep finding out.

If you have no fire safety experience then you shouldn't even be contemplating Fire Risk Assessments without a lot of training & on the job experience. We have trained assessors from scratch who only had a H&S background, but it's a process of years with courses, tutored FRA visits, audit and mentoring that still continues long after they are allowed to do FRA's themselves (starting with revisits and low risk small sites).

My advice is to be an apprentice/trainee with an established firm and after a few years if you feel appropriate start up yourself.

I am willing to advise you on the extinguisher front if you are gong to do it properly, but if you end up being a rag and tagger hope I do ot come across your work as I 'out' to clients any firm who is obviously not doing the job right.

First free tip - don't put a foam, CO2 or ABC Powder extinguisher in a commercial kitchen with cooking oil fryers over 3 litres/300mm diameter as sole protection even with a fire blanket - it requires Wet Chemical (so many smaller firms do this because of ignorance or just to get a sale)
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