Domestic fire deaths

[colin todd]

Thanks Princess-very comforting, although I assume that the actual figures you quote are for some obscure countries known as England and Wales, as the stats for UK seem to be 447 down to 405. Either way, it has gone back down, and perhaps we can breathe a sigh of relief and accept Wee B's blip theory.

[Princess]

Colin

You are quite right - apologies to the rest of the UK

Gel

Relatively speaking - no!

[dave bev]

mmmm

government statistics - wonder what the definition is of a 'domestic fire death'?

mr b starts a further discussion on what should be classed as a 'fire death'??

[colin todd]

You should know Davie, its your members (we don't talk about the non-members do we?) that fill up the FDR1s.

[dave bev]

of course we talk about non members - we actually represent them as the 'employees representatives on the njc' - often a forgotten point! even though some other organisations are stamping their feet re numbers needed for places on the njc!

as for the definition col - not sure the fdr1 delivers - the point im making is that definitions are often changed to produce different outcomes statistically - remember the definition of unemployed being changed a few years ago - and lo and behold the govt had reached their targets. perhaps the defintion of a fire death will change to meet govt targets? any bets?

anyway, nice to hear from you again col, nice ad in fire - i would have thought peeps would have been clamouring to join such a well run organisation such as yours !!!

[colin todd]

Oh Davey, you are such a cynic. I realize the shortcomings of the FDR1, but its the best we have, and these nice stats people at the ODPM are not part of a capitalist plot I am sure. (But you are keeping an eye on the man at the lampost still aren't you? If he comes to take you away, just mention my name. It won't do you any good but it might save me if he knows our politics are diametrically opposed.) With regard to our recruitment, a new chap started last Monday. (After I had done the old McCarthy bit about are you now or have you ever been a friend of Davey or did you ever drink beer and sandwiches with Harold Wilson.) We have also made an offer to another chap. But as you know many are called but few are chosen. Trust all is well with you and that your struggle for the proletariat is going well.

[Princess]

Dave

As I'm sure you know fatal casualities from fires are recorded on the FDR1 and then at the end of the year these figures are reconciled with the death certificates to ensure the cause of death was due to the fire.

[Chris Houston]

I've posted a question in the "operational" forum about the accuracy of FDR1s.  Would be good to get some opinions in there.

[dave bev]

thanks princess - i didnt know the bit about death certs - with due respect i will need to get confirmation before i add this to my growing number of things i know!! LOL

thanks again, dave bev

mr todd, (of todd empire) - i am pleased to see that you are indeed reducing the number of unemployed people - i also assume you are now convinced that full employment is the future - and not at levels below the minimum wage (and it is only a minimum) - can i also remind you that you cant take it with you when you pass to the not so great place for all capitalist pigs (some exceptions of course ;-))

good idea mr h!

[Princess]

Dave

If you go to Note 8 Page 108 of the latest fire stats it explains how the fire death figures are arrived at:
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_fire/documents/page/odpm_fire_037257.hcsp

[dave bev]

thanks princess, i was aware of those figures and info

[colin todd]

Davey, If the place you mean is Heaven (which would be no good to a Unionite, as there is no beer and sandwiches-oh but John didn't give you any though, did he), you are clearly not acquainted with the case  of the engineer who died. he went up to Heaven, where, at the pearly gates, he was met by St Peter, who, alas, could not find his name on the list. The engineer protested vigorously. But I am an engineer he said. We all go to Heaven. It was to no avail. He was sent down below. Well, a few months later God was having a pint in the Old Hell and Damnation with the Devil. You should come and visit us, said the Devil. We have such a nice environment now. We have air con, climatic control and thermostats on the burners. God raised one eyebrow quizically. We have an engineer explained the Devil. First ever to make it to Hell. An engineer!!!!!!! roared God. An engineer!!!!! He belongs in Heaven. Give him back immediately. No way, said the Devil. Who would maintain the clobber he has just installed. Give him back!!!!!! roared God again or or or or or..... Or what, jeered the Devil. Or I'll sue you spluttered God. Sue me, laughed the Devil? Sue me? And when the heck do you think you would ever find a lawyer in Heaven?

[dave bev]

mr todd, is the engineer a member of a trade union, as it seems to me as though he needs some assistance in representation, especially as it seems that St peter didnt follow the company pollicy on recruitment/point of entry selection testing.

he also appears to being exploited by the man in red, a sure sign that a workers alliance would be of benefit to both the individual and the employee group. perhaps it is that no trade unionists ever go to see the man in red and always end up in sandwich and beer heaven that such improvements to the red society only just seem to be occuring, after all with all the capitalist pigs there, who is actually doing any work? who is there to exploit?

dave bev

wee b - the documents are out for consultation i understand (re new fdr1's)

[colin todd]

Davey, In the unlikely event that you ever reach the said Gates ( and I trully hope it will not be for a long time anyway, though should it happen any sooner I will be there at the crem singing the Red Flag with the best of them), mention to Pete (He and I are on first name terms) that I once said you were the only card carrying TUC-type wallah I have ever met who has a sense of humour. It won't get you in, but it will amuse Pete. Incidentally, on a point of order Mr Chairman (pauses dramatically to slurp some more brown ale, during the so-called engineers'strike, there were no engineers on strike, but merely manual workers in the engineering industry.

[Princess]

Dave and wee b

Deatils of the consultation exercise which ends on 30/5/05 can be found at:
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_control/documents/contentservertemplate/odpm_index.hcst?n=6593&l=2