Fire Safety in Scout Halls

[Akela]

I have tried to get advice from the Fire Brigade, so far without any response, and have not found any relevant information on the Scout Association website, even though this must be a very common situation.

We occupy a stone/block built hall with the usual sort of kitchen, toilet, meeting room and store facilities.  The hall is separated from the other rooms by a corridor leading directly to the main entrance/exit.  All rooms open onto the corridor.  The hall also has a fire exit at the opposite end.

Fire alarm may be activated by MACs at both hall exits and at the main exit, and by a smoke detector in the corridor.  The single alarm bell can be heard clearly throughout.

On occasions, our own, or visiting groups of youngsters sleep overnight in the hall.  We don't provide sleeping accommodation "per se", but there may be up to ~40 kids sleeping on bed-rolls on the floor.  The adult leaders will sleep in the meeting rooms.

I consider our overall risk of fire to be very low, though would tend towards getting a heat detector installed in the kitchen.  But does the fact that people sleep here mean that we really need a fire certificate, smoke detectors in every room and 1 hour protection to the corridor?

Any suggestions/advice welcome

[Peter Wilkinson]

The FPA published a guidance book entitled 'Fire safety in village halls and community centres' which may help you.

[Akela]

Thanks, guys

Under building regs - Scout halls are class 5b, places of assembly, same as village & community halls etc.  The regs also state that "In the determination of such classification, any use which is ancillary to another use or which is of a minor nature shall be disregarded and the classification shall be that of the principal use or uses Classification of buildings by purpose".  so the relevant fire precautions should be those for 5b premises.

So to require fire precautions to the standards required for hotels and hostels etc, would first imply that an application for "change of use" to class 2 is needed, and as this is not the primary function of the premises, and neither is sleeping accommodation actually "provided" this does not really make sense.

I appreciate the need for risk assessment, and to enhance precautions if the assessment shows it to be necessary, but "75dbA at the bed-head" where there are no beds would mean 75dbA at ground level over the whole of any floor area where somebody might be sleeping - more onerous than for a hotel!

[dave bev]

hmmmmmn, is sleeping risk a 'minor nature'?

my PERSONAL view for what its worth is carry out risk asssesment - ensure no candles or ignition sources - practice 'what to do in case of fire' with the group(s) - reduce any significant risk - dont get tied up in legislation - use your experience of looking after young people - for peace of mind you may want to get a few single point smoke alarms - more for peace of mind than anything else (along with a carbon monoxide if gas boiler/water heater etc) - i know it might not comply with code b, para x, subsection 14 of the stuff that nightmares are made of legilsation, but where did common sense go? - wouldnt do any harm to take a quick looksee around the hall at night both inside and out - it may reduce the chance of drug crazed youths high on alcohol, glue and spray paint  reliving assault on precinct 13 (the original not the remake)

dave bev

ps check out this film to show the youngsters http://www.fire.org.uk/advice/pifs.htm

click on 'exits' - i still think its funny after all this time!

[AnthonyB]

How often is "occaisonal" for the sleeping use?

If you cannot realistically upgrade the fire alarm system to the appropriate standard then you could have two or three 240V (with back up supply) interlinkable smoke alarms. One to the lobby to detect a fire here or smoke from the adjoining rooms (people then use the hall exit) wired into the other one/two to the hall for audibility to wake people up & in case a fire starts in the hall itself to wake people.

Simple, but with other prevention and management procedures would provide a solution appropriate to the risk .

[Chris Houston]

I would suggest that if fire detection and alarm is needed, it should comply with British Standard 5839-1:2002.  If people could be sleeping anywhere, then it is quite appropriate that there should be 75bd everywhere!

[colin todd]

dB, Christopher, dB. Dyslexics rule KO.

[AnthonyB]

I would suggest that if fire detection and alarm is needed, it should comply with British Standard 5839-1:2002.  If people could be sleeping anywhere, then it is quite appropriate that there should be 75bd everywhere!

Ideally, but I think the poster was implying that the cost of improving the current alarm to full Part 1 system in the appropriate Life Category was beyond their means for the only occaisional usage.

It would be nice for every building to have sprinklers & an L1 alarm, but it is not possible or always required.

A useful solution for the smaller premises, esp those on a low budget like scout halls, is a system designed around pt 6 C like the Sensotec Microfire. A vast improvement on the previous situation in similar bulidings, which has included (amongst other things) rotary gongs, whistles, the odd single station 9V smoke alarm or indeed nothing other than a cry of "Fire!"

i'm not saying audibility isn't important, just that there must be alternatives for this situation other than the most expensive

[Akela]

Thanks, Dave & Anthony.  Kind of backs up the risk assessment based approach I was hoping to take, rather than a legislative based approach.  There is much in your responses I can work on.  Graeme, time you threw out the shorts and garter flashes - we need much more than a bob for a job these days but the principles of Scouting still require us to do something for every penny we raise.  No appeal funds or begging bowls.

We really are only looking at fewer than 10 nights per year, some years none at all.  Fire risk is extremely low - no smoking, no alcohol, no soft furnishings, the only electrical appliances are cooker, fridge & kettle, no boilers, and an out-of-reach fixed electrical heating & lighting system built to take impact from high velocity footballs.  We don't even have to worry about drug & alcohol fuelled hoodies building bonfires in the fire exit recess.