Paramedics

[lucky]

Does any one know if any Fire Fighters have been trained as Paramedics or are there any plans,I have seen Fire Appliances responding to calls were it would take the Ambulance some time to get to and were there was ni IRV available,the Patient was stablised until the Ambulance arrived.Any thoughts on this,I know it has been done in the States for years and seems to work.

[Mike Buckley]

I have known a couple of guys who were paramedic trained, one in a Local Authority Brigade and one in a private works brigade, but both these had done it off their own bat.

One brigade I served in was working towards a closer relationship with the ambulance service (shared control rooms, stores and possibly housing ambulances in fire stations where there was spare room) but this went by the way following a political arguement.

[kurnal]

I think many brigades have trained people to a "first responder" standard -it  falls well above the first aid at work level and well below the paramedic level. If i recall, it qualifies the responder to administer oxygen or anaesthetic gas and the assessment consists of over 50 points including a blood pressure check.

And theres some some hearsay evidence  that where an ambulance has been unable to respond to an emergency some have attended a medical emergency on request from the ambulance service.
You thinking of applying lucky? It may come in useful on our future adventures.

[messy]

GMC have had Trauma Technicians since 1996

Trained in A&E by Doctors and senior nursing staff they can perform medical procedures as inserting airways and assisting with setting up of drips.

Identified by the green chequered markings on their fire helmets, their role is to liaise with the paramedics, or if there is no ambulance in attendance, take over the medical care of injured persons.

Their knowledge also helps with a speedy hand over of relevant information to paramedics when they arrive using suitable medical phrases.

GMC FRS have a book on the subject which maybe still available.

I understand that other FRS have similar schemes

[lucky]

Thanks Guys,yes the knowledge will be usefull for our adventures Kurnal.....watch this space....




If I have offended anyone please accept my apology,my views do not reflect those of my Keepers or Carers,or my Employers,they have there own views which I would not challenge in this forum.

[Firewolf]

Some brigades now use their staff as "co- responders" teams to answer ambulance calls where an ambulance can't attend in time.

Community first responders do the same job - retained firefighters are also sometimes deployed wherever there is poor cover. It unfortunately has met with controversy as the retained crews get paid call out fees wheres as civilian responders don't!

Some brigades have responder level trained firefighters that give EMT on scene at fires, RTC's etc until parameds arrive.

It rakes up the old "defribilators on fire engines debate" where it is still proposed that firefighters will provide a greater medical role on scene at emergencies (if paramedics arent available) and attend more and more ambulance calls over time.

Some news about this matter has appeared at: www.fireservice.co.uk/forums/news

[Mr. P]

Community First Responders are very limited by the ambulance service in what aid they are legally allowed to give.  They will only be called out to non trauma incidents and will be stood down immediatelyif knowledge becomes available that it is a child being respponded to.  The basic training is for resusitation and AED use.  The training is even stating that pulses will not be checked for, just the immediate signs of life- level of conciousness  looking/listeneing for breathing for up to 10 seconds.  Some have stepped up with O2 sets and basic first aid.
I have seen communication from Ambulance Service that any CFR's using equipment or carrying out actions not approved by them who end up facing legal action, may face legal action with out the backing of the Ambulance Service and individuals/groups may be prohibited from resopnding to furhter incidents.

As an aside, how are fireies and others doing with getting the updated protocol for CPR (30:2) on line?

[Mike Buckley]

Have a look at www.fbu.org.uk/newpress/pressrelease/2006/10_23.php

The FBU have just won in the High Court against Notts and Lincs where the FRA was trying to get fire fighters to cover ambulance duties.

[lucky]

Thanks guys some very usefull info.




If I have offended anyone please accept my apology,my views do not reflect those of my Keepers or Carers,or my Employers,they have there own views which I would not challenge in this forum

[hertzvanrental]

Thanks FireWolf,do you know if any of the community first responders have the same skills as paramedice or are they the same as Ambulance Technicians who just have First Aid skills.

I just want to reply to the above comment"Ambulance Technicians who just have first aid skills"
I know the comment was not made to intentionally offend technicians but I'm sure if some of my Para/tech colleagues were to read this there blood would probably start to boil a bit, if you get my drift.
 TECHNICIAN SKILLS
Basic Life support,Suction,Oropharangeal/nasopharangeal airways.Laryngeal airways(depending on local guidelines). Intramuscular/subcutaneous injections, oxygen & entonox administration,Traction splintage, Recognition of Death(in other words techs can confirm death),Manual defibrillation(not AED),DRUG administration Aspirin, GTN, Suscard, Salbutamol, Ipratroprium Bromide, Adrenaline(I.m Injection),Glucagen(I.m),paracetamol oral suspension, Glucogel.
 Depending on the service techs in some counties are able to also administer Naloxone,hydrocortisone,benzylpenicillin,chlorphenamine(piriton) as I.m injections.Also some techs can do I.Vs and in Staffordshire some can perform Needle Thoracocentesis. The difficulty with the technician is that it is not a registered profession like Paramedics. This causes problems when new drugs and skills turn up. The tech role may soon fade out as very soon  university will be the only way to join frontline ambulance.
 PARAMEDIC SKILLS
As well as the tech skills: Advanced Life Support inc: Intubation, Laryngeal Mask insertion,Needle cricothyroidotomy( surgical airway),Needle Thoracocentesis,Intraosseous Access,Intravenous Access, Intramuscular + Subcutaneous Injections. The administration of over 25 various drugs and fluids inc: Thrombolytic Therapy(for M.I/heart attacks),Benzylpenicillin(for menningoccocal septacaemia),morphine,anticonvulsants,amioderone blah blah the list goes on, Cardiac monitoring with 12 lead and defibrillation.Traction splintage again the list goes on.
EMERGENCY CARE PRACTITIONER( from an ambulance background) all the skills of a paramedic + advanced clinical assessment and diagnosis skills, referral pathways, suturing,catheters, minor wound care , minor illness long existing illness treatment.This is NOT a super paramedic as wrongly publicised in the press. It is not a step up but merely a step across offering an alternative type of care that does not need emergency treatment. So the title should really read Urgent care practitioner.
 As you can see technicians are NOT just first aiders.
 As for community responders they have Basic Life Support skills, AED and Oxygen , as a rule. Some community responders in certain areas have slightly more skills but not many.

 I'm sorry if I have bored the hell out of you all who have taken the time to read this post but I feel it important to explain the roles. Cheers take care.

[lucky]

OOPS,you are quite correct,please accept my apologies........