Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters

[firemansam999]

i think its just an ego boost really isnt it ?
in the village i live in, you know there is a turnout, its like a racetrack, speed limits are ignored, headlights on fullbeam and horns beeped, and members of the public mouthed foul language at for holding them up....
i think this is a sickening display, even more so our local counceller has gotten involved through villagers complaints, but as usual nothing will be done, until one of them hits a car or member of the public and it makes the news!!!
i myself have been about 6 inches from knocked off of my bike by a retained firefighter responding to a shout....
and when i went to the station to complain, they said basically, they are above the law and do as they please, the exact words were "if it was your house on fire with your family in it, you would want us to get there as soon as possible"
 i think that is totally sickening !!!
what do you all think?

[nearlythere]

i think its just an ego boost really isnt it ?
in the village i live in, you know there is a turnout, its like a racetrack, speed limits are ignored, headlights on fullbeam and horns beeped, and members of the public mouthed foul language at for holding them up....
i think this is a sickening display, even more so our local counceller has gotten involved through villagers complaints, but as usual nothing will be done, until one of them hits a car or member of the public and it makes the news!!!
i myself have been about 6 inches from knocked off of my bike by a retained firefighter responding to a shout....
and when i went to the station to complain, they said basically, they are above the law and do as they please, the exact words were "if it was your house on fire with your family in it, you would want us to get there as soon as possible"
 i think that is totally sickening !!!
what do you all think?

You should have reported the matter to the police.

[toby14483]

Exactly what nearlythere says, report it to the police and/or send a complaint to your county fire service HQ. Any firefigher breaking the law, especially speed limits to get on that appliance is doing so for their own benefit and not thinking about the public.

[WMWOOL]

agree with nearlythere not a good idea, i done 15 years in the retained, on a busy 2 pump station,but still say NO, there were enough accidents without blue lights,dont vote for this please

[Little phil]

HEP
Done over five years and live 300 yards from station, and nearly been run over by redmist drivers whilst running down top of stn. I know of one time someone got a lift with another lad 85-90 through a 40 during the day. Happens all the time i suspect across our little island. Dont know what the answer is tho.

[kurnal]

Theres lots of answers- its a matter of analysis as to why its happening, taking steps to reduce that percieved need to rush, education of the crews as to the risks and the possible consequences- legal, financial, moral for themselves and for the service.

In my experience its something you have do do well and repeat every couple of years. Its usually down to either enthusiastic youngsters keen to ride the pump or too much competition for places.  For the latter a roster system can help.

[drifty]

This is the link to the response to the petition .

http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page14177.asp

With regards to your last post Kurnal about a roster system the station i work on has had a roster in place for over 40 years which has always worked well, so well in fact the the brigade has taken it on board and have introduced it across all retained stations along with removing the paid per turn out and replaced with a salary which is better for all concerned.

[fireftrm]

The Government's response is no surprise to me, indeed the very same arguments that I have given in response to this thread and others of a similar vein, here and in the other fire service forum. Perhaps the proponents of this ridiculous idea can now begin to listen to reason?

[Chunty]

I work full-time in airport fire services but in my spare time I am and have been retained for 12 years, so I feel I can comment from an informed perspective.

I know that as the town where I serve as retained, everything is growing and developing and with it the roads, the amount of traffic on them and traffic infrastructure such as roundabouts, new routes and traffic lights. All of this has resulted in a slower response time without a doubt.

Do I agree with amending this by permitting myself and my collagues to behave like the Dukes of Hazard, absolutely not.

The implications are frightening and I have worked with a number of retained over the years and a fair percentage drive recklessly already (without visual/audible aids) and are even worse when they get behind the wheel of an appliance. The amount of near misses, agitated drivers and poor image in the public caused by racing attitudes I couldn't list there's been so many.  How we've got so far without a major incident is pure luck, regardless to say a few wing mirrors and other minor clouts have been reported. The worse thing is that many of these have been executed on route to regular AFA's and other non-life critical incidents.

The only reasonable argument I can support is response times to RTC's and persons reported fires, but even there I would suggest finding another way of managing response times other than jazzing up retained cars with lights and horns.

However the brigade are guilty of promoting some of it because as the town has changed the brigade hasn't and periodically we get negative feedback from Ops Support regarding booking out and in attendance times.

In my opinion there is no excuse for rushing heavy trucks around busy streets at the limits of both it and the drivers ability, never mind personal vehicles.

[kev14]

Been retained 11 years and dont think its a good idea, dont think your car insurer would either.

[Tony]

A suggestion for those Stations that are having a problem with speeding members?  Do as we did, invite a friendly local copper around to explain just how wrong these people are, that they have no 'special rights'.  And have him/her put them on notice that they WILL be booked when caught.  It hasn't made all of our people wake up, but hopefully the newer/younger ones have.   It helped that the local copper we invited also happens to be a volunteer firie - he knows all about it from both sides of the fence.

I have a lot of traffic at certain times of the day, no chance at all of getting to the shed quickly.  So I just get there when I can - missed the first truck?  Too bad.  A pity of it all is that some of our longer serving members are amongst the worst.  They should have learned by now how to control the adrenalin rush...

[BigC5910]

Being a Retained firefighter i know the importance of getting to the station quickly, but safely.  I'll admit, on occasion i may push it slighty when traffic is heavy but i've still not managed to control the adrenaline lol.  But i do think allowing Retained guys and gals to have 'blues and twos' would be very dodgey.  I know i'd abuse it if given the chance and reckon most of the guys i know from my station and other stations near by would certainly abuse it.  Although, some of the guys at our station have amber lights on the cars/vans due to their other jobs and when responding to the station put these on,simply as a way of letting people know their there.  I personally have an amber dash light and have a FIRE sign on both visors, this seems to do the trick and since our town is fairly close knit, most people know that i am in a rush, and for a good reason too.  But i was shocked to realise that certain RNLI or Coastguard crews are permitted to use 'blues and twos' on their personal vehicles??  Surely you cant distinguish between the two, both ultimately safe life.  Fair enough this is not an everyday occurance but both dont know this until they get to the station.

[fireftrm]

A strange quirk of law, due to a mistake (I assume) int he drafting of the Road Safety Act, which came into force last April, is that RNLI and Coastguard, along with Airport Fire Services, Mountain Rescue and more, have no legal exemptions at all. Only Police, Ambulance and Fire and Rescue Authorities may leaglly use blues and twos.

[Fireguy1230]

A strange quirk of law, due to a mistake (I assume) int he drafting of the Road Safety Act, which came into force last April, is that RNLI and Coastguard, along with Airport Fire Services, Mountain Rescue and more, have no legal exemptions at all. Only Police, Ambulance and Fire and Rescue Authorities may leaglly use blues and twos.

I know, and its causing us no end of hassle!

Moral dilemma, do you drive under blues to an incident where they may be a life risk but know that you have no exemption whatsoever and know that the police can rightfully pull you over and report you (unlikely i know, but it puts it in perspective).

Or protect yourself by sticking to the RSA and live with outcome when you arrive??

 To be honest, i don't even know if it was a mistake. It appears we didn't even cross their minds in the first place!

[AnthonyB]

The Road Safety Act only removed the right for the speed exemption from non Local Authority Fire Services, etc. It did not affect the existing legislation for other exemptions such as red lights becoming stop & give way signs, ignoring keep left bollards, etc.

And although Police, Ambulance & LA Fire Authorities still retain the speed exemption they are now compelled to provide drivers with specialist training   (the minimum acceptable standard still awaiting clarification in a subordinate Order to be issued by the Secretary of State) in high speed driving in order to do so - before this no training was required (although most organisations did).

So already disjointed legislation becomes more so (as a result of a knee jerk quick fix due to press about several high speed police crashes over recent years).We now have:
- One set of rules and definitions for who can have a siren
- Another set of rules and different definitions for who can have blue lights
- A set of rules and yet again different definitions for who can excercise certain exemptions such as red lights, keep left signs etc
- And another new set of rules with- you guessed - different definitions regarding exemptions of speed limits

No wonder there are so many arguements!