Author Topic: Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters  (Read 99749 times)

Midland Retty

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Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters
« Reply #90 on: August 12, 2008, 02:41:01 PM »
Quote from: FSO
I have seen some shocking driving including jumping red lights.

Even in the middle of the night I do not see this as acceptable. I understand that some retained FFs are very keen to get to station to get the lorry out quicker, but the fact is they are creating unacceptable risks for themselves and people around them.
Quite!

That is wholly unacceptable and the firefighters should be reported / disciplined.

Arent we all here to try and prevent accidents rather than start them?

Out of intrest FSO - how did you know they were firefighters? did they have signs on the car? (not a phlippant question I promise, just wondered)

Offline FSO

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Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters
« Reply #91 on: August 12, 2008, 03:31:00 PM »
Quote from: Midland Retty
Quote from: FSO
I have seen some shocking driving including jumping red lights.

Even in the middle of the night I do not see this as acceptable. I understand that some retained FFs are very keen to get to station to get the lorry out quicker, but the fact is they are creating unacceptable risks for themselves and people around them.
Quite!

That is wholly unacceptable and the firefighters should be reported / disciplined.

Arent we all here to try and prevent accidents rather than start them?

Out of intrest FSO - how did you know they were firefighters? did they have signs on the car? (not a phlippant question I promise, just wondered)
I park my wireless car at my local station as parking is limited at my house.

I have voiced my concerns, but is the job for the appropriate manager now. I dont like stepping on toes. ;-)

Clevelandfire

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Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters
« Reply #92 on: August 12, 2008, 11:49:42 PM »
what is a wireless car?

Offline FSO

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Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters
« Reply #93 on: August 13, 2008, 12:29:46 PM »
A brigade car. The name still exists from when appliances did not carry radios and officers cars did.

Offline JRS999

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Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters
« Reply #94 on: August 13, 2008, 01:17:04 PM »
Maybe its a question of  recruiting the wrong personnel?? If they live within the correct catctment area then there should not be a need? Espcially as more and more services head towards salary schemes?

This has had a positive affect at our station as when the retained alerters activate they know they are guarenteed to ride? thus we dont have 10 personnal racing in for 6 seets to get the bit T!

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The above represents my personal opinions only.

Offline Tony

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Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters
« Reply #95 on: August 14, 2008, 07:56:40 AM »
Quote from: JRS999
This has had a positive affect at our station as when the retained alerters activate they know they are guarenteed to ride? thus we dont have 10 personnal racing in for 6 seets to get the bit T!
Maybe, maybe not.  We have three trucks to roll to our own jobs, and still have people who live close racing to the shed for the first truck (self not included).  And we don't get any money at all.  It's a mentality thing, with the adrenaline, and some of ours would swear that they don't speed!

Offline Kingy

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Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters
« Reply #96 on: September 02, 2008, 05:24:21 PM »
I am at a day crewed station where after 6pm we go home and respond on alerters in effect becoming retained duty personel.
As we have to live in a designated "turn-out" area (within a mile or 3 mins of the station) when the bells go down for a 2 pump shout (1 w/t 1 ret) you have possibly up to 14 people driving in to the station from all areas of the town to the station.
It would be absolute bedlam if we all had lights and bells wailing and these motors coming from 3 possible directions.
So the wholetime and retained (if this was ever to pass!!) would have the use of these bells and lights and the thought that the risk for abuse of these facilities when not on a call is too high to consider.
If you can't make the turn out time of 5 minutes then reflect this in your reports but these cases are very rare and do not warrant the above.

Offline xan

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Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters
« Reply #97 on: September 07, 2008, 09:45:01 AM »
cost and chaos-reasons why it won't happen.800+ RDS in my brigade-cost of lightsetc,initial&refresher training.As mentioned 10+ people descending on a station from different directions-would look like 'whacky races'.In these days of trying to reduce risk of accidents,can't see many brigades ever buying into it.

Offline Kaiser

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Re: Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters
« Reply #98 on: December 16, 2008, 01:18:35 PM »
The problem here as I see it is an educational one.  When a retained firefighter commences employment with the fire service, it is made clear that to be employed as a retained firefighter, they must live within the appropriate area in order to attend incidents within the required time frame whilst TRAVELLING AT NORMAL ROAD SPEEDS.  
I appreciate that there are many extremely keen retained firefighters out there who wish to respond to incidents as quick as possible and I admire this quality immensly, but it is vitally important that they get to the station safely and without putting anyone at risk.
Fire services often lack an understanding of what goes through the firefighter's mind when they get called out from home and the rush of adrenaline that they get and often accidents that occur because of these situations are dealt with purely through discipline proceedures.  What would be better is if fire authorities looked at the problem and educated our firefighters better as to their reasons why it is important that all firefighters attending stations from home, work or where ever do so in a manner which will allow them to get on the pump and fulfill their role efficiently and effectively.  If the problem is that some firefighters never get on the pump because of the distance they live, a solution may be to organise call ot groups, similar to watches on wholetime stations.  This creates a fair and equal opportunity for eveyone and spreads the experience amongst the crew.  
If a fire authority allowed individuals to have their own blue lights on their private vehicles, they would be advocating their personnel to drive in the same manner as appliances en route to incidents.  For this to happen, the authority would have to give each individual efad training, without this training, the authority would be acting negligably and would be liable in a court of law following any accident or incident. In addition to this, every firefighter would have to have a different car insurance policy which would allow this and who would pay for this and my final point is, who would ensure on the fire authorities behalf that your vehicle is servicable and safe to drive as an emergency response vehicle.  The cost implications would be so high to cover all of this, that the authority would have to make a large increase in council tax payments.  At the end of the day there will be huge protests to this as the authorities have to justify every penny spent. It is important to remember that under the Freedom of Information Act, anyone can ask where their council tax money is being spent and if the public found what could equate to millions of pounds being spent in this way when it clearly states that firefighters will respond from home at normal road speeds.

As a former retained firefighter, I fully understand the frustration of being held up on the way to the station, but it is imperative to maintain a safe environment for everyone, that even means the firefighter attending station to go to a shout.  I don't feel that there is any sound argument for giving retained firefighters blue lights for their personal cars and if there are any exceptions to this, they should be made on an individual basis after an in depth investigation in to the positives and negatives of this. Once again I applaud the firefighters that are keen to do a good job on behalf of the people they serve but I firmly believe that the rule is there for a good reason.

Sorry if this message upsets you but I think it puts the argument across fairly.
Malo Mori Quam Foed Ari

Offline Mr. P

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Re: Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters
« Reply #99 on: December 16, 2008, 02:15:50 PM »
How many retainers have been charged addtional premium when they have declared their use of private motor vehicle use, includes using them to get to the station?
I knew of 1 RT station that, depending on which direction they were to go from the station, depended on whose kit was up loaded, to collect riders en-route!
This is a long reigning topic and probably will continue per non endum, but there seem too many reasons of logistics, legalities and mis-use for RT's to be given blues & 2's for their own personal vehicles.  So many [un-official] vehicles are already on the road using "light shows" bought from various motor catering accessory shops, to try and pressure themselves an extra few metres or vehicle lengths ahead, putting so much at risk.  Adrenaline for emergency service workers is already starting to pump from time of alert, why add to it?
Advertising to the bad people out there that your motor may belong to or connected with emergency services can increase likely hood of getting it broken into or stolen.

Offline allornothing

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Re: Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters
« Reply #100 on: December 17, 2008, 05:28:33 PM »
I think the botom line here, is some stations, have sensible firefighters, some, have firefighters that are not so sensible. Some stations have wide open lanes to them, others have tight bends, blind corners etc etc. If this was ever a reality, some stations will only benefit. Others, may end up regretting it. And aside from the stations, some villages may end up regretting it.

Offline Clevelandfire 3

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Re: Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters
« Reply #101 on: July 30, 2010, 11:22:57 PM »
so very very fishy

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters
« Reply #102 on: July 31, 2010, 11:57:54 PM »
I think the botom line here, is some stations, have sensible firefighters, some, have firefighters that are not so sensible. Some stations have wide open lanes to them, others have tight bends, blind corners etc etc. If this was ever a reality, some stations will only benefit. Others, may end up regretting it. And aside from the stations, some villages may end up regretting it.
Well put AON. It would give a new meaning to a Balistic missile out of control.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Chris Houston

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Re: Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters
« Reply #103 on: August 03, 2010, 06:11:50 PM »
so very very fishy

Well spotted.  HelenJames's posts are indeed looking unhuman.  Banned.   Helen, if you are reading this, PM me with an explanation and I'll consider letting you back on.

Offline Clevelandfire 3

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Re: Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters
« Reply #104 on: August 05, 2010, 07:02:03 PM »
cheers - im good arent i