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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: Steve_gb on May 19, 2006, 09:40:31 AM

Title: Fire doors opening on to stairwells
Post by: Steve_gb on May 19, 2006, 09:40:31 AM
Are there any regulations regarding using electro magnetic door holders on fire doors opening on to stairwells?
In some instances i have seen them fitted, in others they are always closed. i need to know whether to include them for costing purposes.
There is no level of protection it is just for general guidance.
Title: Fire doors opening on to stairwells
Post by: hughskid on May 19, 2006, 11:35:56 AM
Steve,

Check Appendix B (Fire Doors) in the B Doc. It should help you.
Title: Fire doors opening on to stairwells
Post by: Martin Burford on May 19, 2006, 01:17:19 PM
Steve_gb.

In addition to the Buiding Regs............what type of building is it you are working on...as there are a number of important restrictions on such devices....in particular where the door in question form part of the staircase enclosure. More info needed to provide a satisfactory answer.
Conqueror
Title: Fire doors opening on to stairwells
Post by: Graeme on May 19, 2006, 03:44:52 PM
Quote from: Steve_gb
Are there any regulations regarding using electro magnetic door holders on fire doors opening on to stairwells?
In some instances i have seen them fitted, in others they are always closed. i need to know whether to include them for costing purposes.
There is no level of protection it is just for general guidance.
I have always gone by not fitting them to doors that open onto stairwells.
Title: Fire doors opening on to stairwells
Post by: kurnal on May 19, 2006, 04:26:21 PM
Generally at first many Bigades were nervous about these and put many conditions on their use, such as smoke detectors within 2m either side, not to be fitted in staircases in care homes, must be closed at night, etc etc.
But they are now much more widely accepted in most buildings, even on staircases  as brigades have recognised that the alternative may well be a wedge except in the best managed and disciplined buildings.

The HTM hospital guides still have some limitations on their use and obviously there have to be some limitations- for example between purpose groups, where pressurisation has been used, in some locations where the staircase interconnects upper floors with basements but I dont think you will find objection in most locations as per the Aproved document B if the device is necessary for the safe and effective approved use of the building.

I have even reluctantly recommended their use in a couple of instances on kitchens where only heat detectors are fitted, if I have found wedges in use. That should cause some comment no doubt!

One ket point though is to specify the magnet to be fitted at the same point as the self closer to avoid opposing forces twisting the door. And if possible  go for swing free closers rather than magnets.
Title: Fire doors opening on to stairwells
Post by: wee brian on May 19, 2006, 04:26:35 PM
Thats what the Building regs used to say. But since the technology improved they are now regarded as being OK any where. if the AFD is up to scratch
Title: Fire doors opening on to stairwells
Post by: AnthonyB on May 19, 2006, 10:42:40 PM
A lot of DDA guidance is asking for wider use of automatic fire doors so they do not impede mobility impaired persons access in normal conditions.

An auto release is also far better than a wedge!
Title: Fire doors opening on to stairwells
Post by: hughskid on May 25, 2006, 11:06:28 AM
An auto release is also far better than a wedge!

I couldn't agree more. But I still prefer to see doors that lead on to stairs kept closed. :D
Title: Fire doors opening on to stairwells
Post by: jokar on May 25, 2006, 11:52:47 AM
Many years ago, Boots won a case in London on the refusal to allow EMDH on doors to stairways.  Regardless of whether we like or dislike it, if the RP makes a case and Part M and DDA are specific examples then they would have to be allowed.  The pressure of certain door holders is so high that vunerable peole in a number of cases may not be able to open the door.
Title: Fire doors opening on to stairwells
Post by: Markbr on June 18, 2006, 10:21:51 AM
Hi everyone, I am selling a new magnetic hold open system into the care home market princiaplly for bedroom doors and I  am struggling to understand what to recommend to my clients with regard to:

1. timed release/close at night
2. which doors cannot be held open
3. requirement for detectors either side of the held door

Is there a written down national policy on these things or is it left to  local interpretation?