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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: Brian Catton on May 27, 2006, 11:27:11 PM

Title: Smoke seals on door edges.
Post by: Brian Catton on May 27, 2006, 11:27:11 PM

I am in discussion with colleagues regarding the fit of smoke seals on door edges. There is some disagreement as to whether any tolerance is allowed between the seal and an opposing door edge in an unrebated centre stile double doorset. ( or any other seal on an unrebated door frame.) Any comment and reference sources would be appreciated.

Title: Smoke seals on door edges.
Post by: wee brian on May 30, 2006, 08:26:17 AM

There has to be some tollerance - unless you can find a chippy that can work to sub-atomic levels of acuracy.

The seals do need to touch though or they won't do their job.

I suppose the textbook answer is to find the manufacturers blurb.

Title: Smoke seals on door edges.
Post by: Peter Wilkinson on May 30, 2006, 11:19:03 AM

If the doorset is to be effective at preventing the passage of 'cold' smoke, then the seals need to touch, as wee brian says.

I think the key is to specify the correct type of seal for the application.  A heavily trafficked door would benefit from a more robust type of seal like the brush type.  However, neoprene blades are often prefered in healthcare applications as they are easier to keep clean for infection control purposes, but these are less robust.

Title: Smoke seals on door edges.
Post by: jayjay on May 30, 2006, 12:44:44 PM

See Information Sheet No 5 From the Intumescent Fire Seals Association it provideds good advice on  the fitting of the various types of seals. There are four other guides relating to seals well worth looking at as they describe the various types and benifits. Not sure if it is in these guides but I have seen 4mm as the maximum gap that can be tollerated for seals.

Title: Smoke seals on door edges.
Post by: wee brian on May 30, 2006, 03:18:50 PM

If you are looking for good quality long lasting seals then use the ones that are fitted in the frame rebate rather than on the door. These get squashed rather than rubbed (there's a joke in there somwhere!) so they last much longer.

Title: Smoke seals on door edges.
Post by: Peter Wilkinson on May 30, 2006, 04:36:59 PM

There's still a problem for twin leaf double swing doors at the meeting stile.

Title: Smoke seals on door edges.
Post by: Brian Catton on May 30, 2006, 10:35:21 PM

Thanks everyone

Title: Smoke seals on door edges.
Post by: Fishy on June 02, 2006, 01:23:22 PM

Does anyone out there think that these seals are any use whatsoever?  It take a tremendous amount of skill to fit the doors so that the seals 'wipe' but it still self-closes, and even when the chippy manages it after a short while the seals either wear away, or the door often drops slightly as the frame moves & settles & it won't self-close any more.  I reckon 95% of doors fitted with these seals either won't self-close or they let daylight through the door gaps.

Title: Smoke seals on door edges.
Post by: Chris Houston on June 02, 2006, 01:51:31 PM

Quote from: Fishy

Does anyone out there think that these seals are any use whatsoever?

Yes, I think they are fantastic.  I've been to a few fire scenes where a basic 30 min fire door has contained smoke damage to a room of origin rather than spreading outwards and upwards.  Both of these doors were not in perfect condition, but did a remarkably good job.  My colleugues have similar experiences.

Title: Smoke seals on door edges.
Post by: wee brian on June 02, 2006, 04:56:15 PM

I've seen the same thing with well fitted doors that don't have seals.

The gap between the door and the stop (the face of the door rather than the edge) can be more significant.