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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: Gasmeter on September 04, 2006, 05:02:21 PM
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What is the general opinion on final exit doors having a thumb turn aswell as a lever handle? It's been suggested to me that it would be acceptable if the thumb turn is kept unlocked while the building is occupied but I'm not sure this is a reliable solution.
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In my opinion!!!
this would be suitable in certain building types dependant on the occupancy. and obviously management would be an issue, including the risk assessment, staff training, signage etc....in the post October 1st in England and Wales, so long as the fire risk assessment includes the use of them and all control measures are suitable i.e staff training and awareness then who are we to reason why. its their building, their people and their risk....let them manage it. We should only be concerned if any of the measures are not addressed and areas of non compliance are found on audit.....yet again ho hum welcome to the new world i suppose.
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For use on routes only used by the normal occupants and the odd visitor why not? If large numbers of people were to use it (e.g. final exit at bottom of stairs from large building) or members of the public where you may get confusion or panic you would use a panic device anyway, so whats the problem.
a realistic risk based approach to escape furniture is required & needs to also balance security with safety, especially if you want to get it fitted and escape mortice deadlocks like you describe are better than a key lock and the deadly key in glass fronted box that still appears from time to time.
(worst thing I saw in a photo from only last year was an escape door between adjoining buildings where the means of 'opening' was a hatchet on a chain next to the door - & this wasn't a spoof! You could argue it was openable without resort to a key or code in the direction of escape though..... :-) )
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For donkeys years the copdes have said doors hsould have only 1 mechanism. And for most of that time many doors have had lever handles and thumb turns (two!!!)
If its a small office or a final exit for half a dozen people then I wouldnt be worried.
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Thanks for your replies, unfortunately this is a brand new leisure centre which will be extremely popular; the two separate fully glazed exit doors lead from a cafe area to a place of safety, however there is excellent AFD and two other exits.
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If it is a leisure centre where the public is likely to be involved I would forget about lever handles and go for panic bolts, anything else is a disaster waitng to happen.
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Yes, if it can potentially be used by the public then it should be panic devices - althoug hare the doors part of the designed & bulit in means of escape and are they signed as such? In some premises you get doorways to places of safety that are in addition to those provided to meet codes & design specs, they are not intended or needed as dedicated MoE and are more accomodation exits that would only be used in certain circumstances, in which case they are not signed and have no escape ironmongery
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Many thanks for your views, these doors are designated fire exits and have appropriate signage, I intend to recommend very strongly that push pads are fitted.
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In which case I'd agree with panic bolts, I'd do the same & throw the consequences of less suitable fastenings at Summerland & Woolworths as further evidence
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I expect I'll need ammunition like that when the project manager(ess) gets back to me!
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Gasmeter
If these doors are FIRE EXITS they need to be immediately available at all materials times..panic bolts or panic latches that respond immediately to pressure from within.....End of story!!
Conqueror.
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As a small cog in a large machine it's not possible for me to demand some of the safety measures that I'd like, unfortunately one discovers fire safety defects after contractors have left a site and then there's an uphill struggle to put them right; it seems that seeking a fire safety officer's opinion is usually an afterthought!
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For the type of building where a 'thumb turn' or snib is considered reasonable in terms of risk assessment, I would ask for a directional arrow indicating 'to open'.
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You may be a small cog but if the thing goes pearshapped it's your blood they will be after. You must base your advice on the findings of your risk assessment. If your superiors decide to ignore that advice, make sure you have copies, then when things do go wrong you can protect your own back.
As a last resort you can always phone you local FRS as a concerned member of the public and inform them. The FRS should not release your name but they will put the frighteners on the organisation.
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Mike,
We are of one accord on this, on this occasion no objection has been raised to my recommendation, but I always keep a record ;)
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There are two standrds relating to fire exit doors BS EN 179 relates to exit doors where the occupants are familiar with the premises and accepts handles,
Where persons are unfamiliar or panic situations could arise then the standard is BS EN 1125 which relates to panic fastenings.
If you do not have access to the standards have a look at the Door & Hardware Federation site at http://www.dhfonline.org.uk/downloads/pub100.pdf they have some best practice guides which can be downloaded plus other guides on door hardware.
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Many thanks for that jayjay, I'll download the standard, it's just what I needed.