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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: GB on March 21, 2007, 03:47:42 PM

Title: Fire Alarm System
Post by: GB on March 21, 2007, 03:47:42 PM

I have a commercial 2 storey property which has a fire alarm system with manual call points only (battery back up  provided) within whole building. 2 tenants, one on each floor common escape maintained by landlord.

A security company has installed smoke detectors into the security system on the first floor in non fire rated cabling.

In the event of detector actuating, security alarm only sounds as not linked into main system. Is this compliant with BS 5839-1:2002? What are your thoughts?

Title: Fire Alarm System
Post by: kurnal on March 21, 2007, 05:49:05 PM

No its far from compliant whether installed for life or property safety reasons.

Again it sounds like one of those security systems which offer some degree of property protection by linking in a couple of sounders for a small element of property protection outside working hours. The sales brochure should be carefully examined to see if there are any potential Trades Descriptions Act issues.

It may also be that your fire risk assessment may identify the need for automatic detection for life safety purposes- properly installed of course.

Title: Fire Alarm System
Post by: Graeme on March 21, 2007, 07:53:00 PM

smoke detectors into an intruder falls under BS5839-6 which is for dwellings not buildings.

Title: Fire Alarm System
Post by: AnthonyB on March 21, 2007, 10:46:32 PM

Not very good, I often see a similar thing where a tenant identifies a need for extra AFD but uses interlinked residential heads - great for them when their area is occupied, not so for the rest of the building.

Title: Fire Alarm System
Post by: CivvyFSO on March 22, 2007, 10:56:47 AM

If it is surplus to requirements for life safety I cannot see the problem.

I would look at it simply as a specific signalling device connected to a burglar alarm. Can't see it being BS5839 pt 1, but nor can I see a requirement for it to be.

If, for the protection of the equipment, an insurance company have asked for a monitored bs5839 pt 1 system then I would say it clearly isn't.

Title: Fire Alarm System
Post by: GB on March 22, 2007, 12:20:51 PM

The problem I envisage is that it may cause confusion within the property in that if a fire is detected, the alarm would sound on the first floor, people exit the building from this level assuming that the alarm has been raised, with tenants in the ground floor potentially unaware of the alarm.

Is there any specific condition is 5839-1 that it is in contravention with. Had a look but not jumping at me. Security company is taking same line as previous post.

Title: Fire Alarm System
Post by: CivvyFSO on March 22, 2007, 12:30:05 PM

It may not even sound an alarm unless it has an inbuit sounder. It seems to me it is simply being used as an auxiliary switch. i.e. Smoke is detected, signal sent to burglar alarm, alarm rings monitoring company.

If it has an inbuilt sounder then an idea would be to replace it with a simple detector to avoid the possible confusion you mentioned. If it would sound an alarm then as you say, in some respects it has altered the overall safety of the building and regardless of BS something should be done about it.

Title: Fire Alarm System
Post by: Chris Houston on March 22, 2007, 05:42:05 PM

See the following thread:

http://www.fire.org.uk/punbb/upload/viewtopic.php?id=1630