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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: colin todd on August 15, 2004, 09:04:18 PM

Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: colin todd on August 15, 2004, 09:04:18 PM
Does anyone know whether this has or has not been launched. I cannot find a final version on the CACFOA website.
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: Chris Houston on August 16, 2004, 03:54:28 PM
I am in the process of looking into this to find out what bearing the recommendations had.  I'll let you know when I find out.
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: Guest on September 15, 2004, 07:11:44 PM
it was released last week at the fire conference - link from cfoa website

http://www.fire-uk.org/

dave bev
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: colin todd on September 18, 2004, 01:52:29 AM
Davey, Are you aware that Somerset are going to apply a version of the policy to 999 calls direct from occupiers who have no ARC connection but call the brigade when the fire alarm sounds? If they cannot give a reason for the alarm actuating they will be told that the FB will not attend and that they are to toddle off to investigate and call the FB back if there is a fire (assuming they survive the fire of course).
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: Chris Houston on September 19, 2004, 07:45:12 PM
...while their own fire safety risk assessment (and all previous advice from all interested parties) is likely to be to get out when the fire alarm system activates and don't enter until the fire brigade or others say it is safe to do so.

Who is going to check is there is a fire in a school, what knowledge will they have of fire alarm systems?  Even if they have their appointed trained person, they might be at lunch, uncontactable or in the process of evacuating (obvioulsy not stopping to collect any items such as mobile phones or walkie talkies.)

Maddness.
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: Chris Houston on September 19, 2004, 07:47:45 PM
My opinion is that if each brigade has a different policy about how to deal with this, it will lead to confusion, delays in fire fighting, extensive property damage, and possibly deaths.

All the extra property damage will be paid for by insurance companies, who will put up their premiums.  Businesses and individuals will pay for it and any minute savings that are made via fire brigades will pale into insignificance compared to this.
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: colin todd on September 23, 2004, 11:32:38 PM
That's the one.
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: wee brian on September 24, 2004, 04:21:47 PM
Lets start pushing for a National Fire Brigade.
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: colin todd on September 24, 2004, 06:21:09 PM
......and bring back National Bus Company. I always liked them. They frequently had really interesting and spectacular fires, and I had a patent on an-in bus fire detection system. Then these nasty capitalists dismantled it all. Once Davey and his friends take over the world, I imagine that even fire consultancy will be natinalised and then I can be a (part time) civil servant like you Wee B.
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: colin todd on September 25, 2004, 12:49:44 AM
Davey, if you read this could you get in touch asap regarding a F&RS false alarm policy that is in draft but is about to come into force soon, and I think has implications for your control op members apart from fire safety in the county.
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: Guest on September 26, 2004, 06:26:42 PM
oncs@fbu.org.uk

thanks
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: Guest on December 28, 2004, 11:31:05 PM
Some fair points, but, would you not accept that as 25% of all calls to Fire Brigades are from AFD’s, and 98% of them are false alarms or do no require any fire fighting action at all, that something has to be done about premises owners who refuse to tackle the problem of multiple false alarms?

I think some of your response has rather over simplified the proposal made by CFOA.
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: colin todd on December 29, 2004, 10:45:58 PM
I dont think its the CFOA policy that is worrying people. Its more radical individual policies introduced by brigades such as Somerset. I spend the odd happy moment of time telling clients that they have great false alarm policies, but unfortunately they are crap fire procedures. People have got such a bee in their bonnet about false alarms, and understandably so, that they write their so called fire procedures around assumptions that all fire alarm signals are false alarms. One expects to have to explain this to the punter. One does not expect to have to explain it to a fire brigade. No good will come of it. It will all end in tears. You read it here first.
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: Gary Howe on December 31, 2004, 10:49:09 AM
I have just read the false alarm policy document and in section 1.9 it mentions that fire brigades with will encouraged to adopt the CAFOA policy document on dealing with false alarms. What does this mean?, will some will and some won't, I assume from the postings on the BB that some brigades will be disregarding it and adopting their own policys, what's that old line about all singing from the same hymn sheet?

I look forward to your replies


Regards and happy new year


Gary Howe
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: colin todd on December 31, 2004, 04:54:09 PM
CFOA cant enforce their policy on anyone. Its intended as a model policy for brigades to adopt as they like in the hope they wont go it alone with extreme policies. Problem is some already have and others may in the future.
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: Gary Howe on January 28, 2005, 06:29:11 PM
Thanks Colin for your reply.

One other question for the BB: does the policy also apply to sprinkler systems?

As they will in the majority of cases be linked to the fire alarm signalling to the ARC. From my side of the fence (insurance) it is going to have a major impact on an insureds policy if they lose their URN number and they have a sprinkler system installed

Regards


Gary Howe
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: dave bev on January 29, 2005, 11:47:42 AM
gary - colin makes the point re cfoa not having any authority re enforcement of their own policies on their own members, yet surprisingly those at the ODPM seem to hang on every word that cfoa say, even when a number of cfo's are clearly against some of the policies! its a strange old world innit!
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: Gary Howe on January 30, 2005, 05:16:10 PM
Dave

A funny old world! you are dead right!!!, what with Workplace Regs, the RRO, CFOA policy, it's going to be interesting future in the field of fire safety, I bet some people are glad they are coming up to retirement?

Still I will try and plug away with my questions on sprinklers, after all I need to try and protect my bonus!!

Best Regards


Gary
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: colin todd on February 04, 2005, 11:57:37 AM
Most policies seem to make no distinction. The problem is you can become a CFO without knowing the difference between a smoke detector, a heat detector, a manual call point and a sprinkler, or so it seems. No wonder the troops on the ground get frustrated.
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: dave bev on February 04, 2005, 07:38:32 PM
apparently you can also become a cfo by not knowing some other stuff aswell !
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: Tradeoff on January 14, 2008, 04:38:51 PM
Sorry to drag this subject up again but i understand that CFOA have completeing rewritten the guidance on 'Unwanted Fire Signals' and the requirement to have Unique Reference Numbers for fire alarm systems and the requirement to have BAFE/LPS approved fire alarm specialists etc etc.

Can anyone tell me where the fire service/CFOA is going with this - and please lets hope what ever is produced is adopted generically throughout the UK (Endland, Wales, Scotland and NI)!!!!!!!!!

Thanks - Tradeoff
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: Ricardo on January 14, 2008, 05:27:11 PM
Quote from: Tradeoff
Can anyone tell me where the fire service/CFOA is going with this - and please lets hope what ever is produced is adopted generically throughout the UK (Endland, Wales, Scotland and NI)!!!!!!!!!

Thanks - Tradeoff
I wonder if your final sentence is as a result of recent differences discussed on other threads between our countries, as it is proving confusing. Lets hope Tradeoff that your wishes come true.
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: Steven N on January 15, 2008, 05:44:09 PM
Quote from: Tradeoff
Sorry to drag this subject up again but i understand that CFOA have completeing rewritten the guidance on 'Unwanted Fire Signals' and the requirement to have Unique Reference Numbers for fire alarm systems and the requirement to have BAFE/LPS approved fire alarm specialists etc etc.

Can anyone tell me where the fire service/CFOA is going with this - and please lets hope what ever is produced is adopted generically throughout the UK (Endland, Wales, Scotland and NI)!!!!!!!!!

Thanks - Tradeoff
I believe it is being rewritten at the moment as the previous document wasn't universally adopted
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: afterburner on January 16, 2008, 02:47:02 PM
the original CFOA policy with URN's etc was certainly 'introduced' into Scotland and has remained hidden away fro some time.
Title: CFOA False Alarms Policy
Post by: David Rooney on January 16, 2008, 06:39:04 PM
Our BAFE man said they were thinking of trying to introduce URNs for every alarm system in the country... not just remote monitored systems....!!!