FireNet Community
THE REGULATORY REFORM (FIRE SAFETY) ORDER 2005 => Q & A => Topic started by: kurnal on October 24, 2007, 09:02:47 AM
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A further guidance document was published yesterday. Available for download here:
http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/fire/pdf/animalpremisesfull
Also the guide to good practice and enforcement
http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/fire/pdf/guidance1enforcement2005
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Had a quick look at the document and particularily Section 4.
If ever there was an case of complete and utter incompetance and stupidity by a guidance author this is it.
Someone has picked up the hotels guidance and drawn pictures of horses and cows in the bedrooms.
Dead end corridor conditions being made up to 1/2 FR with partitions and 1/2 FRSC doors for horses to go through is absolutely ludicrous in the extreme and the only thing missing from this comic are more cartoons.
Anyone who went to an equestrian establishment and made these suggestions to the owner would be considered an idiotic fool.
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See what you mean- had to check it was not April 1st.
One cow per bedroom of course. Very realistic.
Trouble is the slurry and straw on the floor keeps getting caught up in the self closer.
Hope the curtains are flame retardant.
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They cannot be serious, please tell me this is a joke!!! How did the cows get up the stairs??????
I love the diagram showing the horse in the inner room!
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Page 79. Anyone got any idea how the cows got downstairs to their bedrooms?
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Push bar panic bolts on the lion's den? and where's the guidance on travelling circuses?
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They cannot be serious, please tell me this is a joke!!! How did the cows get up the stairs??????
I love the diagram showing the horse in the inner room!
How do they ensure the horse points the right direction for the vision panel?
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It's not April the 1st is it? Or is it something DCLG were supposed to publish last April 1st but have just managed to complete it?
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Have you checked out diagram 27 on p75?????
nearly there- no VP on this one! as for p79, how did the lack of handrails get past the BCOs?
Don't they appreciate animals like a sea view? especially from upper floors!
Seriously though, the only people getting rich here are the horse psychiatrist and the builder, as they go mad with boredom and reduce the FD30 to matchwood.
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Anyone know where I could get the measurements for access routes, turning circles and hammerheads for a wheelbarrow please?
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you're just not taking this seriously are you!!!!!
What colur wheelbarrow are we talking about?
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Should the fire safety order be ammended so that "relevant persons" also includes "Relevant animals"
Im frankly disgraced.
Has anyone considered the destiny or safety of herds of poor defenceless sheep, cattle or goats trapped by fire in a barn or field caused by a petrol juggling horse with arsonistic tendencies? Wheres the guidance for them.
What about Emu's and Osteriches? They bury their heads in the sand and so wouldnt be able to hear the alarm or see through a vision panel. No mention of them is there eh?
Shouldn't goldfish be entitled to Means of Escape?
Self closing cat flaps already exist... but what about the type you can lock off at night to prevent your puddy cat running off - shouldnt they be linked into a fire alarm with of course the obligatory green break glass facility to ensure they realease in the event of fire
Gerbils ! save the gerbils...
Im off now to contemplate what just happened here. This new guide has pushed me over the edge.
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Well I hate to say this but I have to confess something and it concerns an animal or animals. No, not that. I have abandoned the code hugger gang and joined the great unclean. That band of honourable rebels who I thought were without cause. I can see me quite happily now ingoring the books and, just by using my common sense part of my remaining brain, running off perfect RAs at leisure.
What has given me this new found confidence in myself?
Well firstly, anyone who takes me to court for failing to adbide by the expert advise of a code of practice will have to explain to the judge the rational behind the application of the Animal Premises and Stables comic book.
Secondly, if Her Majesty's Government cannot take fire safety and risk assessments seriously how the hell do they expect anyone else to?
Case dismissed. Thank you M'Lud
Dear Administrator. Please remove any seriously derogatory remarks I have made in the past about Risk Assessors. They are not such a bad lot really.
Right Daisy my love. Where are you darling?
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Pure comedy.
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probably the funniest thing i have ever read. incompetence of the highest order.
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(http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/1aa8691c1f.jpg)
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????????????? cannot be for real!!!!!!!!!
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I have found a llama things in this document. I cannot understand how the horse is supposed to se out of the iner room window when he is facing the wrong way. Is that the but end of this joke book?
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Kurnal
Cant get your 1st link to open, can you help
A further guidance document was published yesterday. Available for download here:
http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents … emisesfull
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Try this
http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/fire/firesafetyanimal
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This is my first time on the site for a couple of days and for the last few minutes I really didn't get the joke.
But then I clicked on the link and I agree, it is hilarious.
I didn't realise that the DCLG had signed up Paul Merton as an adviser
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Thats it, the job is f****d!!!! how can we seriously enforce with this nonsensical rubbish!!!! I give up, think ill retire and do risk assessments for the RSPCA!!!
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I can't believe they have published this ...... and to use the standard diagrams?
Complete madness!!
Anyway, I'm now doing the risk assessment for my hamster cage .......... does the hollowed out coconut shell constitute an inner room?
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Working from THAT guidance???
Apparently you cannot lead a cow down steps, so a stay put policy with some form of supression is clearly required. Best get the fire engineering company in!
Also, the poor horse in the inner room... Are we not bothered about a fire in the room with the horse in? Or will he/she see it and evacuate?
Have they given any thought to the amount of methane cows produce, and covered the explosive risk?
Frought with danger these animal establishments...
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Will a stable block no longer be able to use hay and straw?
As a source of fuel that will need eliminating, is there a product that will do the same job but pose less risk of accelerating fire growth and spread?
Oh the dilema!!
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Is this what is known as 'Stable Door' legislation??
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How many animal references can you get into fire safety terminology then? I'll start you off: (fish, reptiles etc as well)
means of eSKATE
emergency WHITING
fire aLLAMA
PLAICE of safety
STOAT control system
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Protected newt.
Asp..irating detector
Cold smokeSEAL
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Phil..........NO!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:
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sorry old boy...I must get out more!
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Can't believe you missed:
Risk ASSessment
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Or risk ASSESsment if you wanted to be really clever!
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Personally I like the pictures, but haven't bothered to read the words; so could someone tell me please; have I missed that cows and horses are now relevant persons, sorry relevant animals?
How do we take into account their specific needs under the DDA (or is that ADA?) for fire evacuation produres?
We can't usually use cattle prods on office staff, but are they still acceptable in these circumastances?
Does the smoking ban apply to animals? (beagles used to be quite partial...)
Does this new guide recognise the higher sleeping risk for these animals?
Does this guide apply to sheep for personal use?
Sooo many questions, so few meaningful answers!
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Personally I like the pictures, but haven't bothered to read the words; so could someone tell me please; have I missed that cows and horses are now relevant persons, sorry relevant animals?
How do we take into account their specific needs under the DDA (or is that ADA?) for fire evacuation produres?
We can't usually use cattle prods on office staff, but are they still acceptable in these circumastances?
Does the smoking ban apply to animals? (beagles used to be quite partial...)
Does this new guide recognise the higher sleeping risk for these animals?
Does this guide apply to sheep for personal use?
Sooo many questions, so few meaningful answers!
And, of course, then there's the training issue.
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You can't teach an old horse or cow new tricks!
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Personally I like the pictures, but haven't bothered to read the words; so could someone tell me please; have I missed that cows and horses are now relevant persons, sorry relevant animals?
How do we take into account their specific needs under the DDA (or is that ADA?) for fire evacuation produres?
We can't usually use cattle prods on office staff, but are they still acceptable in these circumastances?
Does the smoking ban apply to animals? (beagles used to be quite partial...)
Does this new guide recognise the higher sleeping risk for these animals?
Does this guide apply to sheep for personal use?
Sooo many questions, so few meaningful answers!
And, of course, then there's the training issue.
easy one!! sheep dogs. they know what to do when hearing a whistle. Train them up, put the kennel next to the alarm panel. when they hear the alarm they can go round herding up all the animals, just like fire wardens. and they're clever enough to use panic bolts. just need to make sure they don't use old dogs.
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DDA for horses: provide one shotgun
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Personally I like the pictures, but haven't bothered to read the words; so could someone tell me please; have I missed that cows and horses are now relevant persons, sorry relevant animals?
How do we take into account their specific needs under the DDA (or is that ADA?) for fire evacuation produres?
We can't usually use cattle prods on office staff, but are they still acceptable in these circumastances?
Does the smoking ban apply to animals? (beagles used to be quite partial...)
Does this new guide recognise the higher sleeping risk for these animals?
Does this guide apply to sheep for personal use?
Sooo many questions, so few meaningful answers!
And, of course, then there's the training issue.
easy one!! sheep dogs. they know what to do when hearing a whistle. Train them up, put the kennel next to the alarm panel. when they hear the alarm they can go round herding up all the animals, just like fire wardens. and they're clever enough to use panic bolts. just need to make sure they don't use old dogs.
Sheep Dog fire wardens... hmmm.... probably be better than some of the fire wardens we've got round here, plus they'd fetch you the morning paper too!
Clearly camels are not covered by the RRO due to significant changes in barometric pressure in the Hebrides.
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H.M.O - New definition, now read 'Horses in Multiple Occupancies'!!!
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Make snakes the RP's for alarm tests They can activate cp's without keys by using tongues. Cheap feed, just keep a cage of mices handy...
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What about battery hens?
Is there an occupancy factor? 0.001m2 per hen resonable?
Is there a backup battery?
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Does that include the egg? What about the H&S implications for unborn?
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Clearly a hot topic at the moment. Is it a life?
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Well, this thread certainly has taken on a life of its own. I still cannot understand how the Government has allowed this document to be published it makes a laughing stock out of the whole business.
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If one of my staff had been responsible for this document I wouldn't half kick his 'orse.
(with thanks to Benny Hill RIP)
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LOL, Page 64 it talks about "Class AFFF Extinguishers (yellow) as being particularly suitable for commercial catering establishments with deep fat frying"
If the ODPM can`t tell the difference between F Class ands AFFF then theres no hope for the punters.
Paul
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LOL, Page 64 it talks about "Class AFFF Extinguishers (yellow) as being particularly suitable for commercial catering establishments with deep fat frying"
If the ODPM can`t tell the difference between F Class ands AFFF then theres no hope for the punters.
Paul
I think you will find that horses and cows are a little colour blind. They actually see yellow as how you see red. Another reason is when you have bulls staying in hotels and we all know what happens when bulls see red.
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Personally I can't beleive they're letting horses cook using deep fat fryers in the first place!