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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Community Fire Safety => Topic started by: Guest on August 26, 2004, 01:23:18 PM
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BS5839: Pt6: 1995 Fire Detection and Fire Alarm Systems for Buildings
Why do smoke alarms which derive their power from the mains lighting unswitched circuit have a battery back when new homes with a dedicated unswitched circuit don't?
Thanks
Mark
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because a lighting circuit could fail before fire is detected. However, in Scotland and NI, you need battery back up anyway regardless of what mains circuit is, to comply with Building Regs.
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Thanks for the info...but what is the difference between a lighting circuit and a mains curcuit...they could both fail ??
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The lighting circuit is more prone to failure in normal condition and fire condition. In normal condition as, say, result of bulb blowing (which can cause an mcb to trip). In fire, as a result of a fire in the room taking out the lighting circuit on that floor. The smoke alarm wiring will not be running ans exposed in the room.
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Colin
Trust you to come up with the reasons why eh....Thanks for that, but where does is it state such requirements, I can't seem to see it in DOC B, 5446 or 5839.
Oh and not to confuse the issue but I am talking about the interconnect wire and not the sounding of an alarm in a domestic home grade D, E, and F
Thanks
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Now I am confused --- I understand Colins explanation - I knew it was something like that but we don't all have photographic memories.
But what has this got to do with the interconnect wire?????? and the need for battery backup.
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Hi Wee Brian
We all know that smoke alarms must have battery back up for certain domestic systems especially if their is a mains power failure and Colin has kindly given the reasons why the difference of battery back on a lighting circuit is required *thxs again 4 that Colin*,.
My question is however, is there regulations that in the instance of power failure, and the system is running on battery back up, that the system must still be able to "interconnect" with other hard wired or wireless alarms, and if so where can I find that information, i.e ADB, 5839 etc
I hope this is clearer however by all means feel free to call me direct if you wish.
Thanks for your interest
I can be contacted on 07960524308 and ask for Mark
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The interconnect wire is separate. Is is nothing to do with the power wiring. The interconnect will work however the device is powered.
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sorry damn thing lost my name again
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colin, when is the new pt 6 out or due (unless i missed it in all the excitement of njc meetings LOL)
thanks
dave bev
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Yo davey! Where have you been. Plotting the overthrow of democracy again, one hopes. It should be out later this month, as will my new book which is a guide to the standard. Signed copies (of the book not the standard) available at discounted rate to officials of the FBU on production of communist party membership card.
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i can swap you a copy of forged in fire with forged signatures from anyone you want for a copy of your book 'light sleeping made easy' - i assume thats the title?
yes, i have been busy plotting though it was a nuisance plotting those begonias, though the the fuscia looks bright!
dave bev
ps - let me known when the document is out if you can - ta!
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I will try to remember but just recall who collaborated with the enemy come the revolution.
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Does anybody know Is there is a review of ADB at the moment?
Mark
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Davey: It is published. Mark, yes but dont hold your breath for the new version.
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The consultation draft of the new ADB is expected "early" in 2005.
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Colin, Wee Brian,
Thanks for that.
I want to make some comments about the ADB and as to wether they would be relevant for the revision, but I'm unsure as to how the process works. Would this be part of the *consultation draft* in 2005, or should I make some noises now, and of course, to who?
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Oops, didn,t put my name to last post!!
Colin, Wee Brian,
Thanks for that.
I want to make some comments about the ADB and as to wether they would be relevant for the revision, but I'm unsure as to how the process works. Would this be part of the *consultation draft* in 2005, or should I make some noises now, and of course, to who?
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Mark, the rules for consultation are these:
1. Don't offer anything technical . Things that are too technical hurt their heads, and civil servants do not like to work with sore heads.
2. If there is anything that will be politically expedient, give it to them. They will welcome it with open arms.
3. Think up a load of phooey for a regulatory impact assessment for anything you suggest. For example, say that in the year 2094 on a Saturday in July when it is raining it might possibly save a gay firefighter from breaking his or her nail, so saving the local authority thousands in compensation. If you can prove that the firefighter will come from an ethnic minority so much the better. Do not worry about any scientific evidence for all this. No one will think to challenge it anyway. Just say you are from a private sector research body that used to be owned by HM Government.
4. Say that when you were on hols in the free democratic republic of Kikyaasspunkastan you couldn't help but notice that fire exit signs had a photograph of their leader, Yurapaininass Vladivitch Shootemall. Now that Kikyasspunkastan is part of the EU should we not do the same for European harmonization. However, suggest that we could have a local interpretation and have pictures of John Prescott, so that fire officers will be disinclined to inspect the building, leaving the potential for ongoing control to be given to building control.
5. Make sure that no matter whether it is right or wrong, you go down the pub and ask all your friends to sign a petition demanding that your measure be incorporated. Don't worry if they have any interest or knowledge about fire safety, neither will the policy makers or minister to whom you send the petition, but it will create a lot of post and civil servants don't like a lot of post. They have to spend time opening it, and they won't read the contents, only what it is you want and why you are bothering them. Then they will give it to you.
6. Tell them that whatever you want is not necessary in Scotland and Northern Ireland and that, by including it, it will make the guidance in Scotland and Northern ireland different, and then their opposite numbers there will have to run around like blue arsed flies wondering if they should have it too. The thought of that always gives them a chuckle, and reminds them who won the Battle of the Boyne and Culloden.
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OOps pressed wrong button.
Finally, have an appendix Z, which says that, as part of deregulation, no fire safety measures apply to any building that has a sign on the outside stating that the building is not fire safe and that people enter at their own risk, so long as it is safe for disabled people.
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You old (?) cynic you!
James
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Ok, now thats answered as to how in Colins *unique* approach .....but to who?
Anybody got a name, tele No.
Perhaps the FBU can make some sense of Colin's methodology (Dave Bev where are you !!!!)
Cheers Mark
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mark, the cavalry have arrived, just in time to save you from the depths of despair!
although colins comments are pretty valid he misses the point in number 4 where he should have included reference to the 'running (scared) man' signs, uk law will allow the signs to depict either bush or blair waving goodbye on their way out, as an alternative. other than that he's pretty spot on!
oh, and you could try anthony burd at the odpm - last time i put someones number up on here its because they had included it in a document asking for comment/feedback. i dont think anthony has done that yet so i cant issue it either. if you scroll through the odpm site and through recent documents you may find a few telephone numbers you could try
ps anthony isnt a bad bloke either, i might not agree with everything he is at least honest and genuine and does want to get the job done correctly
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Dave
Good ter here from you. So what you are basically saying is that you agree with Colin blah blah blah and oh, don't forget the escape clause, just in case its found to be WMD......but it might not !!
Thanks for the name and I will follow up in my usual way. Just to let you know we are getting some good vibes and will of course keep you posted nearer the time.
Cheers
Mark
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mark, just been checking my swiss bank account and your monthly donations to 'good causes' seem to have stopped!
i hope colins new revolutionary party, or is it the revolutionary new party of colin?, arent receiving your well intentioned monetary advice slips?
the point really is what has adb ever done for us?
glad to see things are on the up, thought you were going to fire 2004, i had an additional leccy supply available in case you turned up 'blagging' again?
dave bev
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If you really want to comment, send the comments to the Buildings Division, ODPM, Portland House, Stag Place, SW1E 5LP. Mark the comments for the waste paper bin in the south east corner toilets, thereby cutting out the middle man.
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Dave,,,,, my lager token friend !!
Yes we did go to Fire2004, but only on the first day. They wanted to stick us on some toilet in the north east of GMEX for about £3K !! It seemed targetted towards equipment for the brigade than actual fire prevention ideas, but still worth the visit even if it was for the curry in Rusholme.
I think I,m getting the drift of both you and Colin's views and if I were a snail I may eventually make progress, only to be told to start from the beginning again !!
Well lets see what a video can do and see if we can prevent that chip pan fire. I,m that will open a few eyes!! However we don't want to burn Alisters house down (again) and need the correct environment for the test (Moreton on the Marsh are you looking). I,m sure based on earlier comments Colin could suggest certain buildings, but I,m not convinced they would be relevant....Needless to say I,m prepared to listen
Regards
Mark