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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: Chris Houston on December 20, 2007, 08:16:42 AM
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I was over in Dublin doing some work for a client (not fire safety work, but general insurance surveying). Within the factory were 2 small mezzanine levels (timber flooring on metal supports). The mezzanine levels were open sided, and in fact the entire factory is one large fire compartment, the mezzanine levels have no walls, only metal barriers around the edges. The only way to get to the mezzanine levels is via one open metal staircase, or one elevator. In a fire situation the elevator obvioulsy shouldn't be used and therefore there is only one escape route from the mezzanine levels. If a fire should start under or near the only set of stairs, they would be trapped (no doubt they would be forced to use the lift).
Although I wasn't there for fire safety purposes, it is my job to point out any obvious issues like this.
I'm not familiar with the legislation in the Republic of Ireland, can someone tell me what the relevant legislation is and if it seems that my client is in breach of it?
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I am not from N.I but it seems to be nice 'catch-all' simple legislation, providing I have the right legislation...
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Duties of employers to employees
25. —(1) Each employer shall ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the safety of his employees in respect of harm caused by fire in the workplace.
(2) Each employer shall–
(a) carry out an assessment of the workplace for the purpose of identifying any risks to the safety of his employees in respect of harm caused by fire in the workplace; and
(b) take in relation to the workplace such of the fire safety measures as are necessary to enable him to comply with the duty imposed by paragraph (1).
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Seems to be quite simple legislation. They need to do their assessment, that should point out what, if anything, is required. There's no point going into depth of what I think may be required as the assessment is the first step and that should point everything out for them.
If there is no fire resistance to the underside of the mezz then the Fire Service may decide they will not go on or under (Or even near) the mezz. Which as an insurance assessor I am sure you would be an interested party if that were the case.
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Try the Irish Fire Services Act 1981 it seems one act deals with it all. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1981/en/act/pub/0030/index.html#zza30y1981
If you require more info try http://irishfireservices.com/forums/index.php
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Just to clarify, I'm talking about the Republic of Ireland.
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Chris, this is my understanding of current fire safety law from my contacts in N.I. hope it is of help
The current legislation is the Fire Service (Northern Ireland) Order 1984, under which relevant premises are Certified, and the Fire Precautions (Workplace) Regs (Northern Ireland) 2001 which came into effect 1st Dec 2001. There is no policing policy yet and as such they do not carry out inspections or audits under these 2001 Regs.
The Fire & Rescue Services (NI) Order 2006 came into operation in July 2006 but will be subject to various Commencement Orders. The Fire Safety section of this legislation has not been commenced yet.
The resulting Fire Safety Legislation will be "The Fire Safety (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2006. These Regulations are due to be released for consultation shortly as required by Section 75 of the Northern Ireland Act. This consultation will last for a period of 12 weeks. It is envisaged that the Fire Section of the new Order will commence around the middle of 2008.
With that aside with regard to the mezz floors, I would be asking if the client has received building regs permission and if they complied with the current regs. at that time in terms of size of floor, storage only? persons working? required fire resistance, AFD and emergency lighting (underneath the mezz) and also meeting the required single direction of travel depending on the risk cat.
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William
This is Northern Ireland legislation you are quoting. The original query was in relation to the Republic of Ireland. Different country - different legislation.
Try Dublin Fire Brigade website Chris.
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I cant comment on the Irish situation as I dont know without looking it up, but common sense dictates there will be two main considerations- ie how big was the mezzanine and is it used for storage or do people work up there?
As you are probably aware in the UK small mezzanines used for storage are allowed certain relaxations in terms of fire resistance to elements of structure and are treated for means of escape as a part of the general floor area in which they sit.
If they are bigger than 10m or 20m if detectors are sited underneath then elements of structure have to comply as a floor in the same circumstances. Means of escape- in many cases with mezzanines the flowing fire plume will spill out around the soides of the mezz so fire curtains are often enough to protect the means of escape.
The specific relaxations for storage mezzanines are one of the least understood and most abused aspects of the ADB - by developers, fire officers and building inspectors.
There are many multi level huge mezzes wth no fire protection.
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Appologies my reply has crossed over with Chris's stating Republic of Ireland
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And I need to check my geography. I wouldn't normally be ashamed about getting something related to geography wrong, but I have been to Dublin.
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Thanks guys. The first floor mezz is a workplace for a handful of people, the second floor is used for cardboard storage.
There is no automatic fire detection, but there is sprinkler protection including under the mezz flooring.
Part of my argument is legal compliance, but frankly even if it was legal, I'm not happy about it and will be making recommendations to install a second means of escape in the form of a steel staircase.
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Not sure if you need that second staircase Chris? What is the single direction of travel on the mezz and then how far to a final exit from the foot of the mezz?
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Mezz is 18x19 therefore furthest corner is 26m to the staircase (if my pythagoras is acurate!). Didn't pace it out (wasn't doing a fire safety risk assessment) but then down 1 or 2 slights of stairs and about a further 25 metres to the final exit. No protected coridors or stairwells, but fully sprinklered (sprinkler specification unknown, but probably to US property protection standards).
Any comments would be welcome..........
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When you get to the foot of the stairs from the mezz do you have a choice of routes to the nearest storey exit or do you have to go down these one or two flights of stairs?
In the UK for a normal risk factory the maximum single direction travel distance (ie on your mezz) should be of the order of 25m then a further 20m or so to the nearest storey exit. But sprinklers can be used to justify an increase in these recommended travel distances, depending on the overall level of risk, ie High medium or low risk which are determined by a combination of what the building is used for, what its made of, how big it is and ceiling heights, and how well it is managed.
So if you class travel on the mezz as stage 1, the conditions in stage 2- travel to a final exit are equally important, especially if more open staircases are involved. After all the one big advantage of a mezzanine is that you can easily see the surrounding areas and become aware of a problem very early on. If there are other levels to encounter we may not have this advantage in this case.
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It is true, those on the mezz have a good view of the surrounding area.
Those on the mezz can only exit via one corner, then down 2 flights of metal stairs to ground level. At the foot of the stairs there are other escape options in different directions.
There is sprinklers, but property protection standards, I think.
Are you
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I found some guidance documents but none for factories at http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/LocalGovernment/FireandEmergencyServices/
Also go to http://www.irishfireservices.com/ and note the article at the bottom of the page.
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Hi all, first post.
This may be of some help
Extract from the Irish Building Regs 2006 TGD B
Where people can go onto the storage tiers in the course of their normal use, reduced levels of fire
resistance in the construction of the raised storage platforms (or even little fire resistance so as to
permit an unprotected steel structure) may also be acceptable provided the following conditions are
satisfied:
(a) the structure has only one tier and is used for storage purposes or access to plant or machinery only;
(b) the number of persons likely to be on the floor at any one time is low and does not include members of the public;
(c) the layout is such that any persons on the floor would be readily aware of any fire starting at the lower level; and
(d) at least one stairway serving the raised floors,platform or tier discharges within 3 m of an exit from the
building.
Features of layout or design that would allow occupants to be aware of a fire starting at the lower level include the use of perforations in the floor of the structure, or leaving a space between the edge of the platform and the walls of the room housing it, to make the smoke and the sounds of the fire obvious.
If the floor is more than 10 m in width or length, an automatic fire detection and alarm system should be
used to provide sufficiently early warning.
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The point you make is a valid one and similar to Approved Document B 2000 version section 8.8 "raised storage areas" as they are termed. The problem is from what is described the floor is not being used as a storage area; persons are working on the floor. It should therefore comply with the fire safety requirements of a floor and would have done if gone through building regs approval?
I would suggest that the starting point now should be the conducting of a suitable fire risk assessment to determine if the current risk is acceptable or if further fire safety provisions are required as already mentioned, AFD or an alternative staircase.
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if it did go through building regs approval...
a lot of modifications like this in ireland are carried out without any type of permssion - it is a self regulating system here, and up to the architect to certify that something complies. Obviously, if no architect, no certification. Many people arent aware of the need to have a fire safety cert either. The lack of compliance shoudl be picked up by a professional during a safety inspection as you did, or during the sale when people start looking for the paperwork