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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Operational => Topic started by: Rich on December 30, 2007, 07:08:05 PM
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Combined aerial rescue platform. My brigade has just ordered 2 of these vehicles. Basically they are a standard pumping appliance with a hydralic platform on the roof. The idea is to have the right resources in the right place but we will not need the seperate Turntable Ladders. I believe Strathclyde have some of these vehicles already. Has anyone have any knowledge of these and was it at the expense of Ff's jobs?
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The Fire Brigade Society's journal 'Fire Cover', issue 177, published last month, has a photo of a CARP on the back cover. This was recently supplied to Humberside FRS. There is also an article inside with further photos. The ALP part has a working height of 27m. Appliance is also fitted with CAFS for hosereels and the ALP monitor. Crew accomodation for 6 in the cab. This appliance will be stationed at Grimsby. South Yorkshire FRS are to have 4 of these appliances as well.
There is reference to Strathclyde's Aerial Rescue Pumps as well; although these are not described as CARPs from the general description it would seem that they are. It says that the procurement of these "will allow a reduction and redeployment in the required crew posts as well as a reduction in maintenance costs."
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Rich what is the reach of theses appliances? They sound similar to the pump hydraulic platforms we used in the 1970's they only had a reach of about 16m.
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The reach, we are told will match out current TL capacity of 30 meters. CAFS has been talked as I suspect the water tank capacity will be reduced because of the hydraulic gubbins that the TL part will need!
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http://www.bucksfire.gov.uk/BucksFire/Fire+Stations/Meet+the+fleet/TheQuint.htm
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The article in 'Fire Cover' for Humberside's appliance quotes 1000 litre of water and 200 litre of foam concentrate.
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It looks like it is an import from Yankee land. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quint_%28fire_apparatus%29
Look at this Yankee fire forum it appears to be a major discussion point. http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=75785
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My concern with these vehicles are if we were to have an incident out of the city in which it operates normally we are depleting fire cover in that area while it is gone. Now some may say - get the retained in to cover, but I don't think that is the answer. Also if we are rid of our current TL's and the CARP goes OTR for service/repair etc we will have no aerial capability apart from to call the other CARP stationed 40 miles away which depletes its own area of fire and aerial cover.
I really am trying to see the positives with these machines but I suspect they have been purchased without doing enough background research!
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I can understand your concerns Rich it appears the concept is about reducing manning than operational efficiency. How many drivers out there would fancy jockeying this 12m beast around the back streets of our towns? Merseyside is going for a number of smaller pumps (7.5 tonne) which most probably makes more sense.
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You need to speak to Grampian FRS who used to run this at Elgin. I understand the crews called it a 'white elephant'. Don't know much about it but know it was not well liked.
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May be worth talking to planning and building control.
Access routes designed for pumps may be a tad tight for this big beastie.
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I understand it is frequent practice in many F&RS to send a pump with an aerial appliance to give the aerial supporting manpower for water supply etc. Is the CARP an attempt to integrate the two appliances so that only one machine and one crew is needed? Or are there other factors at work here?
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A.R.Ps have been used in Strathclyde for about a year now. i am sure one rolled about 6 months ago and some of the station crews don't like them because of the stability issue. Anyone still in the job in Strathclyde like to comment?
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Not in the job, yet, RE: Strathclyde ARPs, Hamilton's ARP toppled on a mini roundabout, while responding to a 999 call, believe some if not all the crew were off for at least six months, from what I've heard alot of the drivers have raised concerns as to there safety, dont think these machines are the way forward but are becoming more common especially if sweeny has his way! Dare say they could be useful in some places but not in our big cities, as a former bus driver i know how difficult it can be be trying to drive a 12M vehicle around our builtup areas, and thats while not trying to respond to an emergency call. BTW what happened with ELgin's ARP?
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You may find this interesting? http://www.fire-engine-photos.com/picture/number3188.asp and read the comments below the photo.
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hi
We have been told the carps will stay in the 2 citys for there life,about 8 years.Do you think cost will spiral as the busiest city pump does about 25000 miles a year so that makes about 200k for its life.Will it then go as they say or will they keep splashing the cash to keep it going.White elephant or value for money? WE will see when we get them at the end of the year, then another 6 months with training and risk assessments.They keep spending on our ageing water carrier a L reg monster merc.When it goes dont think they will replace it which will leave just one for the county.
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Little Phil,
Are we in the same brigade? Is the ageing water carrier based in the centre of the brigade?
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Yes mate its still sat there, read your previous posts and could of bet a lot of money you were just up the road.
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If only they done what it says on the tin. Go round corners, supply water and other unimportant stuff like that.
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii166/gv7gv7/arp.jpg)
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Blimey! not good. I hear the West Midlands Fire Service are getting small CARPs based on Mercedes Atego chasis? I don't think they are rescue platforms I think the aerial equipment is mainly a monitor which can be positioned to chuck water at a blaze from on high? ANyone able to shed more light on whether they are true CARPS or more like the old Simonitors?
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just to add a bit.. my station just lost our ALP and we have now got a Combi. its a volvo chassis witha multistar ladder. We have had an endless list of problems with the ladder side of the combi but the pump is ok. As our second pump at my station it is a complete poltis. Slow and carries half the equipment that the first pump does and only 900 litres of water. BA crew has to sit backwards - not too pleasant. the thing is C.R.A.P not CARP! all our watches dislike the thing but the top brass wanted it and they got rid of 1 job off evry shift. :(
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..... Also if we are rid of our current TL's and the CARP goes OTR for service/repair etc we will have no aerial capability apart from to call the other CARP stationed 40 miles away which depletes its own area of fire and aerial cover.
I really am trying to see the positives with these machines but I suspect they have been purchased without doing enough background research!
Isn't that what happens when the ALP goes OTR anyhow?
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Read something about Humbersides CARP being frequently OTR.
Anyone know anything about this?
Any brigades having success with them?
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I work in humberside and our carp is off the run most of the time with technical problems. General feeling is that they are simply too large for many of the streets in our area and not very practible. The issues surrounding attending an incident in the local area will cause many problems, delayed response times etc, the ideas there but i personally dont think the carp as it stands is the answer.
Job shuffles for the station involved have happened since it arrived and dont think we have seen the last of it yet