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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: Guest on November 25, 2003, 03:48:09 PM
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Anyone have sitest on upgrading doors to 30mins fire resistance. They must be up to date and comply with technical standards, and not to manufacturer friendly as it is for HMO guidence documents?
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Could you translate into English? What does 'sitest' mean?
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Depends where you're starting from. There's no 'one size fits all' solution but if you know enough about your doors I might be able to help you on your way. I guess you're already well aware of the RBKC HMO fire precautions book which gives some guidance?
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The best reference for door upgrading was produced by TRADA. I think they may have withdrawn them.
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It is possible to upgrade doors and may be a desirable solution in some situations, perhaps in a listed or historical building, but the result can be no better than nominal as no method of fr test and certification is possible.
TRADA did produce a spec and it was commonly done and accepted in the past. Retro fitting intumescent material to doors, the fixing method of upgrade material et al is at best questionable. Given the time and materials involved to do it properly the current solution, to replace them, is probably the cost effective option.
Good general guidance on doors is given in BS8214.
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This reminds me of the days when they went round telling landlords to screw asbestos panels to doors - shortly before they went round telling them to have them removed (safely). Does anyone have a web address for current guidance?
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http://www.eastbourne.gov.uk/Your_Home/Landlords/fire-safety.asp
includes how to tell if existing doors can be retained & how to upgrade them. Select document 1 - Fire Doors, Frames & Fittings
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This document has a good few errors in its various sections on different aspects of fire protection.
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Thanks again, Anthony and well done, Eastbourne - although they clearly should have commissioned Colin to write these.
Is there really no national organisation produced document on the web with this guidance (BRE, LPC, FPA, etc)?
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Yes, I've just found it. TRADA have a Technical Document on achieving 20 & 30 minutes FR by upgrading
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Thanks again, Anthony.
Do you mean their 1998 paper 'Fire Resisting Doorsets by Upgrading'? I thought that this was about assessing suitability rather than how to do it but if this is the one, I shall buy a copy at £5 as it is only accessible on the Web by TRADA members and not registered users. This may be what Marty was looking for.
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Yes, but without being a TRADA member I don't know exactly what it covers- perhaps someone on the BBS who can access it could tell us
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From memory I think you'll find the TRADA upgrading sheet is more a checklist of things that will determine whether or not your door is suitable for upgrading. As for the actual 'how to do it' you may get better guidance from an English Heritage booklet. They have done some testing more recently than TRADA so maybe they discuss in better detail some of the materials and systems which are on the market now.
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Trada also had a series of quite detailed specs for different types of Upgraded door. These are the most useful documents if you can get hold of them.
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I tried to get hold of the TRADA upgrading sheets (basically, details of various fire resistance test data, along with sectional drawings) a couple of years ago, but was told by TRADA that they had all been withdrawn and that TRADA no longer supported their use. As a previous respondent said, the only current one doesn’t really tell you how to do it, just what you should consider before trying. TRADA are still around, so it may be worthwhile giving them a call, to see if they have replaced the old sheets.
I have used Cape Calsil’s technical literature in the past, to support the use of Supalux / Masterboard, but I’m fairly sure that they have disappeared – taken over by Promat, I think, so their literature may not be supported, either.
I’d have little confidence that doors upgraded using the Eastbourne info sheets would provide the relevant degree of fire resistance, if they were tested. For example, I seem to recall that thin (6mm) fire resisting boards only worked if applied to the non-risk face of panels. They tend to perform much worse if applied to the risk face (counter-intuitive, but I’m fairly sure that the test evidence bore this out). Similarly they keep mentioning Stability, which disappeared as a performance criteria more than 15 years ago and the references to ‘asbestos type board’ could be quite puzzling to many users.
This sort of ‘free’ info is getting rarer and rarer. It’s not really in many organisation’s interests to make the considerable investment in producing and maintaining it – especially when you consider the liability and indemnity issues, should the recommendations prove to be wrong, especially if someone dies as a result. Some of the manufacturers of upgrading products produce guidance, but it’s of variable quality (and usefulness). BRE used to produce good stuff, but they’re a private organisation now and have to make a shilling just like the rest of us.
Still, look on the bright side, think of all those passive fire protection consultants we are keeping in business!
James Whittaker
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As you say nobody is going to produce guidance if its not in their interest. TRADA are essentially funded by manufacturers so they want you to buy new doors. BRE woul probably produce something - if somebody else paid for it.
Come to think of it I think English Heritage may do something on this (it is in their interest you see).
I wonder if the guidance produced by eastbourne was OK'd by their insurers. Could be a big nasty claim if a door upgraded to their spec fails when its needed.
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Guest, If you send me a private message, I can give you some more information on upgrading. But, to send a private message, I believe you have to register.