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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: messy on March 08, 2008, 09:41:44 AM
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Does anyone know whether any fire authority records (under caution) interviews using tape or digital equipment, or are FRS still using pen & paper to record verbatim?
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Many brigades use tapes, there will always be a need to record in writing for example on site if questions are put to a suspect regarding an offence.
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If you accord to PACe then you shpould use twin decked tape machines.
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If you accord to PACe then you shpould use twin decked tape machines.
Single decked machines can be used
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Messy, where I am interviews under caution are done at Headquarters on twin tapes under PACE.
Some brigades may caution on site and take contemporaneous notes as soon as they think an offence has been committed.
Jokar, as much as it pains me to say it, PhilB is right:-
"If a single deck/drive machine is used the working copy of the master recording must be made in the suspect’s presence and without the master recording leaving their sight. The working copy shall be used for making further copies if needed." [Police and Criminal Evidence Act (PACE) 1984, Page 200]
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Still scribing.
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Messy, where I am interviews under caution are done at Headquarters on twin tapes under PACE.
Some brigades may caution on site and take contemporaneous notes as soon as they think an offence has been committed.
Shouldn't all inspectors be comptent and prepared to issue the caution and interview on site if necessary?
Yes in an ideal world the interview is best carried out in an office with all the appropriate facilities.
But what happens in your brigade Civvy when an inspector is making his contemporaneous notes and wishes put questions to a suspect regarding the offence??
...... a caution must be issued or the evidence may be deemed inadmissable.
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Tape for formal PACE interviews.
Contemporaneous notes for on site PACE interviews under caution. Written Verbatimly. Dam my hands ache!
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Messy, where I am interviews under caution are done at Headquarters on twin tapes under PACE.
Some brigades may caution on site and take contemporaneous notes as soon as they think an offence has been committed.
Shouldn't all inspectors be comptent and prepared to issue the caution and interview on site if necessary?
Yes in an ideal world the interview is best carried out in an office with all the appropriate facilities.
But what happens in your brigade Civvy when an inspector is making his contemporaneous notes and wishes put questions to a suspect regarding the offence??
...... a caution must be issued or the evidence may be deemed inadmissable.
My contemporaneous notes (or audit form) would be made available for the defence, but would not be used as part of the prosecution as the interview under caution, backed up by photographs/digital images/video and my statement should suffice.
There are times when an on-site caution may be appropriate, but bear in mind that if there's enough of a problem to constitute an offence, it will more than likely be something that photographic evidence will prove quite nicely.
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My contemporaneous notes (or audit form) would be made available for the defence, but would not be used as part of the prosecution as the interview under caution, backed up by photographs/digital images/video and my statement should suffice.
That may work perfectly well but a word of caution...excuse the pun. If the suspect declines to attend a formal interview, which he is perfectly entitled to do the only evidence you will have is your contemporaneous notes.
If those notes can be deemed inadmissable because a caution should have been given, you have no evidence and therefore no case.
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There would be my statement as a witness of fact written shortly after the visit. Plus any photos.
I take your point though.
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There would be my statement as a witness of fact written shortly after the visit. Plus any photos.
I take your point though.
Civvy your statement as a witness of fact may not be accepted without contemporaneous notes, what are the photos of??? how does a Court know that??
If it isn't recorded, it didn't happen.
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Contemp notes are there and are disclosed but we are not referring to them as 'evidence' as part of our prosecution.
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Contemp notes are there and are disclosed but we are not referring to them as 'evidence' as part of our prosecution.
True but your witness statements and exhibits will be based on your notes potentially
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My Brigade use twin taped machines
contemporaneous notes will be taken, we will not normally interview on site , fraut will dander (PACE code C, & Human Rights)
Have attended court for fire safety offences many times never had to refer to my contemporaneous notes,
your notes will produce the written statement with your photographic evidence
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Have also attended court many times. Swear by my copious contemporaneous notes and have referred to them in the witness box. Would not try to do anything but get a few details down from the potential offender in my notebook and would allways caution at that point.
Having said that we always try to get, (or offer), a formal interview with twin decked tape machine. Glasses of water, flowers, solicitors etc.
Hand written formal interviews are a waste of time and its all I can do to stop myself giggling as we try to accurately scribe every word and nuance.
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My Brigade use twin taped machines
contemporaneous notes will be taken, we will not normally interview on site , fraut will dander (PACE code C, & Human Rights)
Have attended court for fire safety offences many times never had to refer to my contemporaneous notes,
your notes will produce the written statement with your photographic evidence
Yes we follow a similar policy. Cautioning on site is discouraged for several reasons.
The contemporaneous notes are taken as an accurate records of what you said and saw at the time of your visit and found an offence had been committed.
As an example if you write "The car was blue" in your contemporaneous notes but then say in your witness statement "The car was blue with a white stripe on the roof" you will find the defence barrister will pick up on it and will want to know where the white stripe has come from.
You might say you remembered the car has a white stripe but forgot to add into your notes but bearing in mind court cases tend to be held sometime after the offence took place you will be on a sticky wicket and the defence barrister could discredit you easily.
So your witness statement can only go on what you have written in your contemp notes, otherwise anyone could add anything they liked. Dont repeat don't try and add things from memory, or make guestimations.